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IainR
21-02-2007, 03:04 PM
Around NY's I sprained my ankle. At first it wasn't too bad, but I lost stability and for about a week it would roll whenever I landed on uneven ground. For a week I went off the fells and just road ran.

Now after 6 weeks, it is still sore. If I really attack a down hill it goes again. As longas I take it easy the stability comes back but it goes again when I don't concentrate. The other night I landed in a pot hole and it went again.

Is this normal for a sprained ankle?

I've not rested it really, still kept up 40 - 50 mile weeks, done my ML course etc, but there's still a slight painjust below the ankle joint.

If I go out for 5 hrs or so it will get a bit sore towards the end, but not too bad that I don't enjoy the run. There still feels a lot of lateral instability. For example at football training doing star jumps across the pitch is very sore, and so is pushing off sidewards across the joint.

I tried an ankle bandage but the clever people sowed the seam below the ball of the foot, so a pain to run with.

Any tips?

Stagger
21-02-2007, 03:39 PM
I had a sprain at Kinder Iain and followed the advice on this website.

http://www.epodiatry.com/ankle-sprain.htm

PS I also rubed in comfrey oil every night and also put a cling film round when sleeping.

Danbert Nocurry
21-02-2007, 03:48 PM
Iain i'm no physio but from what you've described it sounds like the ligaments may have been damaged by the twist. Did you hear a 'pop' like sound in your ankle at the time of the twist?


It seems odd that you're still getting the symptoms you describe after so many weeks, as usually you'd expect something like that to have gone away after 3 or 4 weeks wouldn't you?

I guess the fact that you're still running on it though is slowing up the healing time. Maybe (as horrinble as it sounds) you need to give it a week or maybe 10 days complete rest.

IainR
21-02-2007, 04:22 PM
No pop.

There was no really big sprain either, I think its more a build up of many sprains over a prolonged period.

Its (well was) definately getting stronger, but things like traversing hills where the injured ankle is down hill, is quite sore.

I thought I may have done damage, but you'd have thought I wouldn't be able to go out for 20 odd miles over rough terrain if there was something seriously damaged?

Track Fairy
21-02-2007, 04:36 PM
When you say "went again" what do you mean?

Are you absolutely sure you heard no pop or didn't get some sort of snapping sensation in there? If you did then you will have torn ligaments to some degree. If not theres a chance you have just strained them and you may be getting problems with the ankle being stiff and not operating in the way it should (ie instinctive responses to instability not working). The ankle stiffens up to protect itself and if it still stiff then things won't work properly.
Either way, a physio will be able to help in terms of strengthening work and unstiffening the joint. Worth paying for - I've torn my ankle ligaments three times now!

IainR
21-02-2007, 05:22 PM
No, definately no pop. There was no sharp pain either, just dull aches.

It is stiff though, especially after I've sat down after a run in the evening.

But it's my left foot and I'm kicking balls with no excessive pain.

I may well have to bite the bullet and see a physio. I've not been overly worried as I've still been running, walking and playing football. But it is a while now that this pain and instability has carried on for.

I know there's no chance I could do a fell race right now, as commiting on a big descent it would just give way again. Butruning at pace on roads, hill sprints etc it is fine.

Widdy
21-02-2007, 06:11 PM
In my opinion the best advice is to go and see someone who knows what they are talking about! Book yourself into a physio and let him/her give you a proper exam and diagnosis which will followed by professional treatment. it took me months to get over my ankle injury so no quick fixes.

Brummy John
21-02-2007, 08:47 PM
Widdy had an awesome sprained ankle a couple of years back, it was a real sickener, like a tennis ball under the skin.

When I started going over on my ankle (about 5 times in one race) it took a good 6 months to heal. I reckon orthotics in my fell shoes caused me to tip over much more. I got a wobble board to retrain the proprioceps (?) which are the sensors that are supposed to tell you now to go over on your ankle. Its fine now, but still tingles a bit some times.

philgreen1968
21-02-2007, 10:07 PM
elastoplast 2.5 " width wrapped figure 8 round your ankle stops the sloppyness and repeat "going over" but not the pain.
phil

Track Fairy
21-02-2007, 10:25 PM
Widdy had an awesome sprained ankle a couple of years back, it was a real sickener, like a tennis ball under the skin.

When I started going over on my ankle (about 5 times in one race) it took a good 6 months to heal. I reckon orthotics in my fell shoes caused me to tip over much more. I got a wobble board to retrain the proprioceps (?) which are the sensors that are supposed to tell you now to go over on your ankle. Its fine now, but still tingles a bit some times.

I can certainly relate to the orthotics giving stability probs offroad! Wobble boards are also good but the best thing I've ever done with ankles is to get back on the horse straight away and get some walking and running done. If the ankle is stiff that is something that most likely won't go away and well worth getting sorted. Theres a good chance that, as well as the ankle probs, the loss of flexiblity will cause probs somewhere else (in my case the opposite knee!)

If you're moving about then I doubt things are too bad but one or two physio appts could sort the prob for good.

detritus21
22-02-2007, 09:05 AM
get yourself booked in with someone. What you describe doesn't sound too straight forward with the change in stability etc.

holtie75
22-02-2007, 11:59 AM
Iain, I'm suffering with the exact pain as you have described!! I went over on my ankle weeks ago now, when the ground was frozen. I have a pain just below my ankle joint which is preventing me training altogether! We have a physio that visits work once a week, i've just booked in so hopefully she can sort it........ getting really frustrated though big races coming up! :(

justlovestretching...
22-02-2007, 10:29 PM
Hi Iain,
Losses in proprioceptive sense are common after sprained ankles and this is the reason you are continuing to go over on it. Proprioception is the sensation of your bodies position in space. Without retraining this you will continue to have an unstable ankle and are likely to carry on repeatedly injuring it.

I wouldn't recommend strapping it as a long-term solution as this will simply make you reliant on the strapping for support rather than help the ankle regain its stability.

Seeing a physio will help with the local inflammatory process and hence the pain but will also mean you can rehab the ankle with exercise and prevent this injury reoccurring.

Good luck with it,

JLS

Harry Bripps
26-02-2007, 01:00 PM
i wholeheartedly agree with the above. i did mine v badly before xmas (tennis ball style - they were v impressed in A&E) and i'm sorry to say there is no quick fix. i saw two different physios who gave me ultrasound and lots of exercises to do. i bought myself an inflatable wobble bag thingy and spent ages rehabing the ankle. one physio told me that the ankle wouldnt be 100% for 6 weeks and therefore not to run off road till after 6 weeks. I'm completely unfit now cos i did practically nothing for 6 weeks. But my ankle feels really good and strong.
Runners are so obsessive they are their own worst enemies. You can make a thorough recovery but dont expect it to happen overnight. Get to the physio.

NotOnUrHelly
30-04-2007, 09:14 AM
Just a quick one here, I went over on my ankle on Friday, heard it crack it really hurt. I was back running after two minutes and it was fine.

That night it was sore and swollen right on the bone that sticks out. I could walk on it with a limp and a bit of pain, but after 2 minutes of walking it was fine again, I iced it that night.

The next day I did a 9 hour walk up Helvellyn - Fairfield and St Sunday. It was fine except when I struck a rock a bit funny and I even managed to jog down off St Sunday.

Today its a bit sore when I start walking, but then loosens up. Its also sore to touch and prod.

I'm guessing that the best thing to do is keep the thing moving and keep going with the running.

Im entered into Coniston on Saturday, Im not sure what the decent is like, would it be a stupid move.

Jamie

CribGoch
30-04-2007, 09:34 AM
There cant be much basically wrong with the ankle if you can do a long walk and jog on it. Probably a bit bruised. The descent off Coniston can be a bit of a clatter, depending on which line you take, and you might knock it again when the going gets loose. Great race though. Decisions decisions:)

NotOnUrHelly
30-04-2007, 09:47 AM
Thanks for that Crib,

I was guessing that its not to badly damaged. Ill get the wobble board out of the cupboard and stand on one leg with my eyes shut for a week

Joe
30-04-2007, 11:39 AM
I was guessing that its not to badly damaged. Ill get the wobble board out of the cupboard and stand on one leg with my eyes shut for a week

Remember to take brief stops occasionally to eat and drink ;)

Take care - a friend had a pain in their foot that went away with running which turned into a fracture. I'm not saying that'll happen here, but I'd look for another race unless you're certain you're fine.

maloni
30-04-2007, 12:28 PM
Remember to take brief stops occasionally to eat and drink ;)

Take care - a friend had a pain in their foot that went away with running which turned into a fracture. I'm not saying that'll happen here, but I'd look for another race unless you're certain you're fine.

the same thing has happened me I went over slightly on my ankle and despite at the time being in pain I carried on training but on the roads. Thinking it would just get better after a couple of days I went off for an Xray and nothing was picked up I carried on again the pain just didnt go away went back for an Xray there it was a fracture... 2 weeks rest it was fine.

Alexandra
01-05-2007, 08:52 PM
I suggest you go and get your ankle checked out by a really good physio. In June 2005 I twisted my ankle and heard something crack. Continued walking as I was halfway down a french mountain at the time. Some swelling & discomfort but nothing terrible - was able to continue my backpacking holiday. Nearly 2 years later, just when I was hoping I was nearly better, a long walk on saturday has left me hardly able to put foot to ground today (tuesday). This after buckets of ice, restricted exercise, stretching and strengthening, 2 cancelled walking holidays, 2 physios, 2 podiatrists, 1 orthoticist, 1 sports doctor, 1 consultant, sports massage, xray, ultrasound and MRI scan (much of this paid for by me). If it were all to do again, I would have given my ankle more rest and I would have striven even harder to find a professional who could understand what is wrong and help me put it right. Good luck!

mr pitt
02-05-2007, 03:52 PM
Turned my ankle and heard a crunch, did the same (as in running on it it was ok) but when it was rested it got real stiff and sore(hur..hur!) Physio told me off big time as I'd twanged the ligaments in the ankle and it was endorphins from the running that made it ok whilst running, but by running I was aggravating the injury. Rest it and get it sorted by a proper medical person! We dont always know best.

NotOnUrHelly
02-05-2007, 09:45 PM
Its still pretty swollen and bruised, Ive just iced and massaged it with Glucosamine Gel.

Coniston on Sat is out of the question. Bummer

cotswoldrunner
22-04-2008, 07:14 PM
I turned my ankle quite badly 3 weeks ago whilst running downhill and it still hurts now. Just wondering if anyone has any useful advice for me - I'm a bit new to running injuries. Basically, i can roll my left foot inwards ok but when I turn it outwards I'm in agony.

AJF
22-04-2008, 09:25 PM
Oh where to start........

Obviously R.I.C.E to start with but then get movement going including stretching to stop the ankle stiffening.

Pushing it isn't too bad a thing to do as long as there is no risk of going over on it again. So that means hit the roads when it is fine to run on again. Strap it whilst it is still weak. If it hurts or you don't feel safe on it then DON'T run on it.

Get a wobble board or a rolled up towel and practise your stalk impressions. I did (and still do) loads of things on one foot. This includes making dinner, cups of tea at work etc. Basically any time balancing on 1 foot helps. Try doing it whilst chucking a ball against a wall or close your eyes. Helps get the balance back and also strength.

Ankle raises. Do them slow, if it burns your calfs then you are doing it right.

Get a thereband and strap it to your desk at work and build up strength there.

When stretching and trying to get rid of the stiffness then heat helps.

It takes a while but can start healing fast once you have broken the back of it. If it is any help I did mine badly at start of March and ended up in a cast. I am now well on the way to recovery but you really do get the results from the effort you put in to aid recovery.

Have a good look through the forum as there is loads of info in past threads!

Good luck with it all. Also once it is fixed then keep strengthening it! If you don't then it will happen again.

marty mcfly
23-04-2008, 11:07 AM
rehab rehab rehab!

cotswoldrunner
23-04-2008, 05:19 PM
Hmm, this stuff to do at your desk is all very well but I'm a landscape gardener and spend most of the day building stuff, digging holes, or driving my van. I must make an effort to try the things you've suggested - it's just that they aren't really possible during the day.

Stagger
23-04-2008, 05:55 PM
Try a wobble board, they are a massive help in rehab.

Fleeter
27-04-2008, 11:28 AM
had trouble with my left ankle for ages,got that sorted,then i went and twisted my right over in the mournes,and i'm still having trouble with it now,went on me yesterday again,best thing is rest,think i might take up knitting

TonyVortex
27-04-2008, 12:23 PM
I've had this trouble before - 2 x tips (ignore if you already know)
1) Balance on one leg with eyes shut every day (sounds mental but it works!)
2) Soak injured ankle in salty water

These are old tricks & have helped me greatly, hope they help you...

AJF
29-04-2008, 03:10 PM
I've had this trouble before - 2 x tips (ignore if you already know)
1) Balance on one leg with eyes shut every day (sounds mental but it works!)
2) Soak injured ankle in salty water

These are old tricks & have helped me greatly, hope they help you...

Salty Water?

Whats that meant to do? I have never heard that one before but if it works then always happy to give it a shot.

Does sound like an old wifes tale though? do you have to put in wing of bat to the water?

cotswoldrunner
26-05-2008, 05:24 PM
Thanks to all those who recommended getting a wobble board: it has certainly proved a real eye-opener. Basically, I had no balance at all! When I first got it I couldn't balance on the thing for more than 20 seconds, which explains why I am prone to this injury. I'm getting much better now and can do it for about 2 minutes at a push. I can also now balance on it on one leg, which is progress. My ankle still hurts (turned it again 3 weeks ago) but I learnt my lesson. I've since taken the rehab far more seriously and the ankle is starting to get better. I'm hoping to start running again in a couple of weeks (on the flat of course). I may have to give my local hill race a miss in July but at least things are heading in the right direction. Many thanks again.

ratfink
27-05-2008, 01:30 PM
hey i don't know about the salt - but i've read that cold water (as oppose to ice) can be a good secondary stage to boost healing by increasing circulation to the area - without causing further inflammation

- where ice is good in the early days after injury, cold water for about half an hour (which is longer than 20min recomende for icing) is what was recommended.
- basically if you put some water and a tray of icecubes in a bucket with your foot/ankle for half an hour - when you take your foot out it should be a bit red (if its white the water is too icy) - apparently it takes this longer amount of time to get this response.

Luv Shack
10-06-2008, 11:44 AM
Trashed my ankle badly at Edale FR; x-rayed - not bust, ligaments torn, very swollen & foot/ankle now horrible colour....damn & blast (just a few of the words uttered)!

Have read thru' this thread and further advice on icing sequence & periods would be much appreciated?? Plus any info' on anti-inflammatory drugs/treatments..?

More icing next.....:(

CL
10-06-2008, 12:03 PM
Trashed my ankle badly at Edale FR; x-rayed - not bust, ligaments torn, very swollen & foot/ankle now horrible colour....damn & blast (just a few of the words uttered)!

Have read thru' this thread and further advice on icing sequence & periods would be much appreciated?? Plus any info' on anti-inflammatory drugs/treatments..?

More icing next.....:(

Andy, my other half went over on hers at Saddleworth. It was a right state, but she's back running already.

Aside from the ice treatments and just before bed, soak an old flannel in cold water and then ring it out. Place this over the injury and cover this in plastic I.e. plastic bag. Then strap both into place and not too tightly, because your going to leave this on all night.

Try and mobilise the ankle by gradually extending its range of movement and walk on it as much as poss. Painful but essential.

After about a week you should be back running erm i mean hobbling.

Best wishes

Luv Shack
10-06-2008, 12:13 PM
Andy, my other half went over on hers at Saddleworth. It was a right state, but she's back running already.

Aside from the ice treatments and just before bed, soak an old flannel in cold water and then ring it out. Place this over the injury and cover this in plastic I.e. plastic bag. Then strap both into place and not too tightly, because your going to leave this on all night.

Try and mobilise the ankle by gradually extending its range of movement and walk on it as much as poss. Painful but essential.

After about a week you should be back running erm i mean hobbling.

Best wishes

Thanks Chris.... much appreciated!
(I was a bit horrified to find ankle & foot like a red/ purple/green/brown ballon this morning...)
The hobble is coming on quite well :D....

IanDarkpeak
10-06-2008, 01:06 PM
Thanks Chris.... much appreciated!
(I was a bit horrified to find ankle & foot like a red/ purple/green/brown ballon this morning...)
The hobble is coming on quite well :D....

I heard that the air was blue as well Andy. Hope you get it sorted soon. The hills have been quiet enough over the last month, get well and get back out there.

ratfink
10-06-2008, 03:08 PM
my ankle update is that having twisted it pretty badly at fairfield (3 weeks ago now) - i can now run on it on the road (or the smooth paths of ecclesall woods) - but that its not actually ready for off road proper (as aborted club run from hathersage on sunday demonstrated)

running steady up hill from hathersage was ok and up through plantation was ok - but the rocky path on top of stanage (which is my favourite normally) - was just too hard!

tallpaul
11-06-2008, 12:13 PM
Trashed my ankle badly at Edale FR; x-rayed - not bust, ligaments torn, very swollen & foot/ankle now horrible colour....damn & blast (just a few of the words uttered)!

Have read thru' this thread and further advice on icing sequence & periods would be much appreciated?? Plus any info' on anti-inflammatory drugs/treatments..?

More icing next.....:(
i did my ankle too at edale fr.
just going down the side of coopers farm.
an x-ray showed no brake but very very painfull.
booked in to see a physio to find out how badly damaged the ligaments are!
spent the last few days with ice on it for 20mins at a time and elevated above the heart.
mine to is many colours:eek:
theres alot of info on tha net about this type of injury.
beening of work theres nowt much else to do!!!!
lets hope were back running soon.
good luck.:)

San Marzano
15-06-2008, 08:07 PM
I'm also in the process of trying to strengthen my right ankle which i sprained badly last year playing football - alway interested in any tips - i find throwing the ball against a wall works really well.

But what is a thereband? - sounds quite interesting if i could hide it under my desk at work!!

AJF
15-06-2008, 08:16 PM
Thera-band is a latex strip that you can tie in a loop and use for resistance exercises.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THERABAND-THERA-BAND-RED-6-FOOT-MEDIUM-RESISTANCE-NEW_W0QQitemZ190229817509QQihZ009QQcategoryZ79759Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp163 8Q2em122

NHS physio was a bit tight and gave me about a foot of band off a roll and I strap it to the foot of the desk. If you get one then let me know and I will happily let you know the exercises I was given.

CREAD
21-07-2008, 04:27 PM
I turned my ankle quite badly 3 weeks ago whilst running downhill and it still hurts now. Just wondering if anyone has any useful advice for me - I'm a bit new to running injuries. Basically, i can roll my left foot inwards ok but when I turn it outwards I'm in agony.

I did the same on Saturday my last training run on the mountain before snwodon this saturday, a steady jog on the way down and my left ankle went. It hurts as you toucj the bones, Ican move inwards and outwards, bruise it out, a little swelling. I have applied ice and strapping and rest. Havent been running since saturday.

Just wondering if anyone has any useful advice for me - Would i be ok to run Saturday, and also is there a specific way of strapping the ankle with tape, 'phiten tape', or any otehr tape on themarket that would do the job for the 1hr 45min run up and down - Thanks

AJF
21-07-2008, 06:28 PM
Just wondering if anyone has any useful advice for me - Would i be ok to run Saturday, and also is there a specific way of strapping the ankle with tape, 'phiten tape', or any otehr tape on themarket that would do the job for the 1hr 45min run up and down - Thanks

Think only you know if its okay to run on. Risk and reward. Is the risk worth the reward of doing the race?

If you want to tape it I use this method (http://www.smartplay.net/ouch/injury_manage/taping.html) and use leuko tape. Probably not quite as much tape as that but I use the 3 stirrups and the figure of 8s with the locking straps (I personally don't bother with the figure of 6). It holds quite firm and it was how I was taught when playing basketball in my youth. Have a practise before you race. If you do it wrong it may not offer full support and could give you blisters where skin rubs.

If you do it right it offers great support but you could still twist your ankle as it is not 100% safe.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

CREAD
21-07-2008, 07:56 PM
Thank you very much for the advice
cheers

philgreen1968
22-07-2008, 10:26 AM
brufen, lots of zinc oxide tape and run on the bugger. If you can do a days work on it, you can run on the hills! A good dose of Joss works for me.

Margarine
22-07-2008, 11:27 AM
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runningfool
20-10-2008, 03:02 PM
The day after the Loch Ness marathon, (5th Oct) whilst out walking the dog, I developed pain in my left ankle and in the course of about 200 yards, it went from mild niggle to bonecrunchingly painful.

Putting weight on my foot produced pain just below and deep to my medial malleolus (knobbly bone on the inside of your ankle) but lifting weight off of my foot produced and excruciating stab of pain that was much worse. I eventually managed to hobble back to the car but it took an age.

Oddly, the pain started to settle quickly and by the next day, there was hardy a niggle. Two days later I did and easy run with no problems and a week later even did some hill repeats with my club with no problems.

Yesterday, I did a 15 mile run in my trail shoes, on road (not my best idea) and the pain recurred after my run. Again, really really painful when I lifted my weight off of my foot and the sort of bony pain you think of when you've broken something. By evening however, it had mostly faded away.

Now, it hurts to turn my foot inwards or outwards but walking seems fine.

There's very little swelling, no bruising and no tender spots.

Anyone ever had anything like this? ???

Rob
23-10-2008, 11:46 AM
I have one of those It’s called a stress fracture.
Either no running and 4-8 weeks to sort out
Or run with well cushioned road shoes and I am still waiting for it after 10 weeks but its 90% pain free.

runningfool
23-10-2008, 05:36 PM
I have one of those Itís called a stress fracture.
Either no running and 4-8 weeks to sort out
Or run with well cushioned road shoes and I am still waiting for it after 10 weeks but its 90% pain free.

That had crossed my mind but I'm trying hard to put it out. :D It's been odd the way the pain has waxed and waned but it's lingering in the background all the time now. I'm certainly not going to do any more running on tarmac and will keep off the running for a week or two.

I know I should probably go see someone but I've found physios generally only tell you what you know already or tell you to stop running. :eek:

Rob
23-10-2008, 06:31 PM
Thats what I have done plenty of grassy runs.

andy k
31-10-2008, 02:41 PM
Hmm

I had something that sounds very similar. It came on immediately after a half marathon a year ago. ( a very soggy largely off road one)
I too thought "stress fracture?!" but didn't want to and I continued to train (occasional recurrances) and ran my marathon.

now it has gone away (touch wood), can't remember when it was last a bother.
Not sure mine ever lingered for an extended time though.

Note this does not constitute advice, sensible or otherwise.

ZootHornRollo
16-03-2009, 11:50 PM
I seem prone to going over badly on my left ankle during descents. Sure it's just a matter of time before I sprain it badly or break it.

I can see it will drain all my confidence in descending fast.

Although it seems to happen when I'm planting the foot harder to slow up a bit, which made me think it might not happen so much if I just loosen up and go fast. Easier said than done though if your ankle's throbbing from a turn already.

Can anyone suggest why it might be or what I might do to prevent it?

philgreen1968
17-03-2009, 12:46 AM
try tape! might be the answer and there been threads on here about strapping up ankles.

Pudgy
17-03-2009, 12:48 AM
I'm very prone to spraining my ankle after a bad fall a few years ago (canoeing accident.... go figure). As a relative beginner you will go over on your ankle a lot, but the more you run in the hills, the more flexibility and strength you aquire. Oddly the mind and body look after themselves, so running down the hill with gay abandon is the way forward (apparently). The more you think about it, the more you're interfering with your natural flow, and the more stilted and injury prone your running becomes.

Ady In Accy
17-03-2009, 04:12 AM
Try using a wobble board or start by standing on one leg (knee slightly bent) with your eyes closed and then swap legs after a minute. You will feel all the tendons around the ankle moving as you balance. This should act to strengthen up the area as well as training the neurons in the brain to adapt quicker to sudden movement changes.

ZootHornRollo
17-03-2009, 09:08 AM
thanks all - much appreciated.

It's difficult to experiment and practise cos I don't live near any fells.

I'm thinking too the sport supports you can get in Boots will probably not do much good - and will probably get rid of a fair bit of skin too.

Pudgy
17-03-2009, 01:22 PM
Just running off road will help. The key to it all is improving proprioception (the ability of the ankle to know where it is, and adjust automatically). Taping up your ankle may help this and may improve your confidence. Wobble boards, or Fleeter's trick of standing on one leg on a rolled up towel certainly helps, but I still think the surest and best way is to get out and run on uneven surfaces.

Margarine
17-03-2009, 04:17 PM
Definitely. Run on odd surfaces.

scott baistow 93
17-03-2009, 07:07 PM
ive heard people say that taping and straping and supports weaken the ankles and your ankles become dependent upon the support or strap so that when maybe you come to take the strap off your ankles would be even weaker there are various ankle strenghting exersices you can do which may help or if your running in a pure fell shoe walsh,inov-8 mudclaws id try changing your shoe to a good trail shoe an inov-8 roclite or a wave harrier or solomon are supposed to give support but ... in the spring fellrunner magazine(on the back page) ive sin some walsh pb trainer/boots which have a higher cut ankle with a strap on for support same grip as the walsh these may be what you need :D

cp1uk
17-03-2009, 09:02 PM
I would also recommend getting a wobble cushion. If you google it, they cost about £20, and are rather like a partly deflated football. They are unstable to stand on and you can build your ankle muscle quite well with one.

ZootHornRollo
18-03-2009, 11:16 AM
thanks again

Scott, I was in Terrocs, which seem to have a bit more support than most (although they're the only Inov8s I've worn, so I wouldn't really know)

not great grip though on some surfaces - but I know they're a compromise, traily shoe, so I expected that

I think, as a poster has said, once you've gone over once, it's likely to happen again in the immediate aftermath and for days afterwards as the sprain has weakened the ankle - so I probably shouldn't have gone up Skiddaw a few days after turning it

think I'll try the wobble board as well as trying to do as much trail running as possble

ZootHornRollo
18-03-2009, 11:51 AM
after it happened for the third time on way down Skiddaw, I was planting my left foot splayed outwards like charlie chaplin to stop it happening again

that makes for a distinctive running style

fellgazelle
18-03-2009, 11:26 PM
I have also had a number of problems with rolling my ankles (having ankles like twiglets doesnít help:D).

This would nearly always occur when descending over rough ground. Iím convinced now that this was down to two things:
Wearing trail shoes for comfort over fell shoes and heel striking due to holding back when descending.

I have found that wearing fell shoes with a thin, flat sole so the heel is as low to the ground as possible gives a better feel and allows the feet to respond quicker. I wonder if this is akin to Pudgy's comment:


Just running off road will help. The key to it all is improving proprioception (the ability of the ankle to know where it is, and adjust automatically).

I also now try (whenever possible) to lean forward a bit and concentrate on landing on the ball of my foot rather than the heel when descending (unless on scree) and only ever wear trail shoes when there is little or no steep descent involved, and never on rough trackless moorland.

This is just my perception but it seems to me that the more you try to protect and support the ankles the more likely you are to damage them.

novice
13-07-2009, 12:25 PM
I went over on my ankle twice at Kinder Trog and again last week. Should I see a physio and can they actually do anything to help or should I just take it easy and be careful?

blencathrafrommykitchen
16-07-2009, 10:30 AM
Shoes make a difference - lower profile out-and-out fell shoes will help, but you may have to watch other injuries coming on if you do a high mileage in them.

The real trick, as other posters have said, is to strengthen your ankles!

Exercises such as using a wobble board; standing on the injured leg and writing the alphabet in big letters in the air with the other one; playing catch on one leg; running backwards in a tight figure of 8 round cones; walking slowly and deliberately heel-and-toe down a straight line; etc etc will all help. Basically anything that works the ankle will strengthen it and improve proprioception.

I used to suffer from this problem chronically, but since I moved up to cumbria 4 years ago and started to run more consistently on rougher, steeper ground the problem disappeared.

novice
27-07-2009, 07:53 AM
A few weeks agon I went over on my ankle and keep doing it. Yesterday was really painful!

SO would going to a physio be of any benefit, or just a waste of money, or should I just keep going and hope my ankle strengthens up again?

Stagger
27-07-2009, 08:21 AM
A few weeks agon I went over on my ankle and keep doing it. Yesterday was really painful!

SO would going to a physio be of any benefit, or just a waste of money, or should I just keep going and hope my ankle strengthens up again?

Novice I would say go see a physio ASAP.
You have tried for a few weeks to sort it but it has not worked.
The physio won't cure it but you will get excellent advice on the correct strengthen procedures and if you ask the question, the correct way to tape it prior to a run.
Oh
And you might not like the bit when they say rest.

I go every time something like this occurs.

PS
It was my Physio that got me refered at the hospital for an MRI scan after being wrongly diagnosed with a knee problem. (now on waiting list for opp)

Hope this helps

Stagger

Stagger
27-07-2009, 08:23 AM
Have a look at wobble boards on ebay.
Ask the physio if they would help in your rehab.
The more you ask the more you will learn for the future.

novice
27-07-2009, 09:54 AM
Thanks for the advice, have booked an appointment

ZootHornRollo
27-07-2009, 10:51 AM
Novice, I think the problem is that once you've gone over on an ankle badly, it weakens it and it's more likely to occur again in the following days. To which I suppose a week or so's rest is the only answer.

but I think this really is something that does strengthen with more time running on uneven ground - it still happens to me but less frequently.

lantern rouge
19-08-2009, 09:15 AM
I tore some ligaments in my ankle at Tegg's Nose a couple of weeks ago and was asking the physios at work about it. The consensus seemed to be rest for a week to ten days with NO running; gently reintroduce running but not on unpredictable surfaces and see how it goes; once you have done it, it is likely to be the same one again and again... my left ankle is ALWAYS the one and has been that way for a couple of years.

When it comes to strengthening, standing on one foot is meant to help with the strength, but more importantly the co-ordination... they recommended it with your eyes shut, but I fall over... it's hard enough with my eyes open.

Good luck with it.

Pudgy
19-08-2009, 10:44 AM
Yeah, I struggle with the eyes closed thing as well (but seeing me dance tells you all you need to know about my coordination). Try standing on one leg on a rolled up towel, works for me.

lantern rouge
21-08-2009, 09:03 AM
Don't quite know how you mean. Standing with the rolled up towel under the arch of your foot or going lengthways?:confused:

strider
26-08-2009, 10:33 AM
I am prone to ankle problems too so I tape them BUT only for races. To help strengthen them I never tape them for training runs. The exercises mentioned do work and are particularly useful after the intitial recovery stage following an injury. Yes, do buy a wobble board and use it regularly. Standing on one leg while throwing a tennis ball repeatedly against a wall helps 'teach' your ankle to work for itself.
Hope this helps.
PS get someone reliable to show you how to tape your ankle properly!

Penguin
26-08-2009, 03:21 PM
Just running off road will help. The key to it all is improving proprioception (the ability of the ankle to know where it is, and adjust automatically). Taping up your ankle may help this and may improve your confidence. Wobble boards, or Fleeter's trick of standing on one leg on a rolled up towel certainly helps, but I still think the surest and best way is to get out and run on uneven surfaces.

stand on little plastic hedgehog things are a great training tool, for nasty ankle injurys!

also use of a good debt collecter(pysio!) helps it to heal a lot quick, torn 2 ligaments this time, running again.. 3 weeks after injury! not allowed to go on fells for 3-4 weeks :mad: bah humblug

philgreen1968
10-09-2009, 04:19 PM
lego pieces strewn around the floor, then walk randomly round the room in the dark, similar training!

stato
27-09-2009, 03:02 PM
I agree with the problems 'trail' shoes can cause, being not so 'low profile' as out and out fell shoes. Since I've worn my Salomon speedcross(which are as comfy as anything by the way) I've been prone to spraining my ankles. I think it must be down to being more used to training in Inov8 fell shoes or adidas swoops, which are both 'lower profile'. It all came to a head last weekend, when a break in concentration to just greet a walker 'good morning' whilst running down the wrekin, resulted in disaster! Yes, I actually managed to sprain both ankles(one straight after the other!!) The left one was already pretty swollen from previous recent sprains, so as I leapt in agony as that one cracked over, I then managed to land on the other awkwardly, and now both resemble multi coloured 'elephant' ankles!! Ah, the joys of fell running ha ha!

No vice
04-12-2009, 06:56 AM
Any 'special' advice?
About a month ago I had slightly sprained ankle. Not the usual where the foot roll stretches the outside of the ankle, but the other direction.
Thought it had healed, but during a half marathon, last weekend, I realised it hadn't.

Now got it heavily strapped up as although its weight bearing it is unstable. Proprioception is obviously shot.

Using icepacks. I can't rest it as I'm doing 10 hour shifts, on my feet.

Any tips to sensibly reduce recovery time?

Amex
04-12-2009, 08:56 AM
Time i am afraid, heat to increase the blood flow, rest and time sorry.

No vice
04-12-2009, 04:13 PM
Time i am afraid, heat to increase the blood flow, rest and time sorry.

Yeah, guess I know it :( Had a bad couple of months about this time last year - just after I started, with spraining my ankles about 3 times.

Just a vain hope that fell runners might have some magic cure or tips, due to the increased risk (?) to the ankle from the terrain.

Well, the Bolsover 10k is out for next weekend :rolleyes: might have to think about dragging out the wobble board and oiling up the bike. No exercising the leg for a week more tho' :(

No vice
05-12-2009, 04:51 PM
Good news.
Been told its not the ankle proper, so no damaged tendons/ligaments.
Apparantly muscle damage, on the outside of the lower leg, just above the ankle. Should heal quicker. :)

andygib1982
16-03-2010, 10:12 AM
I did my left ankle at Black combe on the 7th.Its still swollen although the massive purple bruise has now gone :D.Is it worth a sports masarge ? Its still a bit tight.Ive never had,needed or bothered before with anything like this.

injury advice
16-03-2010, 04:12 PM
Go and see a good sports therapist, Acute stage is over you need to get it moving give me a ring after clinic after 8pm on 01229 480422

injury advice
23-03-2010, 07:36 AM
Slipped on some horse poo yesterday whilst out on run felt outside crack.
I am a Sports physio so walked back. Then got the ice packs out, then Rubbed Albmaleaf sports injury gel on This morning a miracle no pain

Derby Tup
23-03-2010, 08:17 AM
Horse poo indeed :rolleyes:

injury advice
23-03-2010, 09:03 AM
AHHH HORES Poo, better than Bito. Is Bisto still around on the forum

injury advice
23-03-2010, 09:36 AM
When a product comes on the market as good as Albmaleaf its not horse poo, as stated above,

eccentric
23-03-2010, 09:38 AM
This morning a miracle no pain

Sounds like you're drinking the stuff...

injury advice
23-03-2010, 09:44 AM
Would be a good laxative but you would have to re name the product to Albmapoop, how does that sound

simgreen78
23-03-2010, 10:12 AM
Is there anything it doesn't do?! ;)

Jez Hellewell
23-03-2010, 10:52 AM
Anybody know where I can get this miracle cure ? I sprained mine this morning. Bloody typical, on "taper week" prior to the Blubberhouses Moor 25 aswell. It's nicely swollen now.

Derby Tup
23-03-2010, 10:57 AM
It's a brave man who looks for a miracle cure from a physio who can't even spell ankle ;)

Get a bag of frozen peas on it :cool: Good luck :)

simgreen78
23-03-2010, 11:12 AM
It's a brave man who looks for a miracle cure from a physio who can't even spell ankle ;)

Get a bag of frozen peas on it :cool: Good luck :)

Genius :D

simgreen78
23-03-2010, 11:20 AM
Anybody know where I can get this miracle cure ? I sprained mine this morning. Bloody typical, on "taper week" prior to the Blubberhouses Moor 25 aswell. It's nicely swollen now.

Sorry to hear that Jez. I think the old RICE methodology is really the only way to go.

I badly broke my ankle in three places in 2006, its now weak and very susceptible to sprains. I've experimented with gels and oils (yes, including 'miracle' cures) but I always end up back on the old RICE programme, followed by 'strengthening' exercises once the swelling has subsided.

The only thing that has ever got anywhere near to helping me, was something called Mason's Dog Oil, which is a blend of Rape Oil and (cover your ears Injury Advice) Petroleum Jelly. But even then, I reckon that was more to do with the continual massaging of the area as opposed to the actual product.

Good Luck, hope you make it in time.:)

Jez Hellewell
23-03-2010, 01:36 PM
Thanks for that SimGreen. I've been trying the RICE technique, so hopefully will be feeling the benefit tomorrow. A friend has suggested that once the swelling goes down to try strengthening exercises on the childrens trampoline ! Sounds good to me.


I'll hobble round the Blubberhouses Moor 25 if I have to !

shadbolt
23-03-2010, 02:01 PM
The only thing that has ever got anywhere near to helping me, was something called Mason's Dog Oil, which is a blend of Rape Oil and (cover your ears Injury Advice) Petroleum Jelly. I've used dog oil (http://www.dogoil.co.uk/index.htm) for years. It's good stuff.

injury advice
23-03-2010, 03:29 PM
Dog oil contains petrolium jelly and chemicals, Essential oils contained in Albmaleaf & other natural oils/gels have natural healing properties, that are not harmfull

IanFitz
23-03-2010, 05:04 PM
Slipped on some horse poo yesterday whilst out on run felt outside crack.
I am a Sports physio so walked back. Then got the ice packs out, then Rubbed Albmaleaf sports injury gel on This morning a miracle no pain

Are you a sports physio? Are you not David Jackson described on this page -http://www.albmaleaf.co.uk/about

If so you should be careful about describing yourself as something you are not...

Especially if if you are apparently trying to raise the profile of a product or service in a forum like this

injury advice
23-03-2010, 05:26 PM
Clinical sports & remedial therapist is my proper status , I have 15 years of clinical practice under my belt & have treated several international athletes back to full fitness. I am a fellow of Sports & remedial therapy, I have Taught the subject for 10 years And am as good as Any General Physiotheapist if not better at treating & rehabilitating sports injuries. I do work alongside Several Sports Pyhsiotherapists who i have a high regard for & there are ones that i regard beter than myself, they also have the highest regard for me. Also i work alongside several Orthopedic consultants who also have a high regard of my work, And send me clients for Rehabilitation. So i am sorry for any cofusion. Sports therapists can get a bad press because some qualify in a week & some like myself have done 2 years full time plus every year either taught courses or attended them, I can asure all forum members there is no comparrison to a two week qualified sports therapiat & a 2 year full time course & 15 years of running own clinic

goldsim1963
23-03-2010, 06:47 PM
Crikey! Thats the answer for you IanFitz. But... was or is it the person you were asking about??:confused:

injury advice
23-03-2010, 08:12 PM
One of my aims is to help Members find the right Sports Physiotherapist or Sports therapist in their area.

I do know seveal of each proffession mainly in the north & north west. What i am tierd of seeing in the clinic is people who have had treatment after treatment with no improvement month after month, by both the above. Ime not bothered if people go elswhere. for treatment i am busy in the clinic & just want to se sports people back enjoying their sport. If people ring me i will try to advise them but will always tell them if treatment is needed to go and se either of the above as you can not make a Diagnostic judgment on the phone.

IanFitz
24-03-2010, 09:49 AM
David

Thanks for going some way to clarifying the facts. That looks like a great CV, it sounds like you have lots of experience and a good reputation so I donít really understand why you wouldnít refer people to that; although I do understand, and agree with, your point about sports/massage therapists having a, sometimes deserved, dodgy reputation. I hope you would agree that because of this the good therapists who are well experienced and thought of should be making absolutely certain that they do everything they can to maintain professional standards.

I asked for clarification for a number of reasons and Iíd like to be clear that I am not accusing you of any of the below, just wanted to be sure that none of this was going on.

Firstly, as Iím sure you know, Physiotherapy is a protected profession regulated by the HPC- continued misuse of the title can be subject to a £5000 fine. Secondly, I donít like people hiding behind the anonymity that forum usernames can provide. Thirdly, because I have a vehement dislike of quackery and pseudoscience I will go out of my way to challenge this when I think that it may be occurring.

I hope you can see why people may be dubious on reading your report of a miracle cure when:


You are effectively anonymous (to those who canít be bothered to spend 20 seconds on google)
Appear to falsely claim to be a physio
You spell ankle wrong
Use an unheard of diagnostic term to categorise your injury - bad ancle sprain (sic)
You are promoting a product, presumably your own, whilst not acknowledging this fact
In your case study you applied ice to the injury which would make it difficult to judge how much impact the magic cream actually had. ItĎs not a very rigorous example of science.
You are really not helping yourself with the snake oil avatar - it could be perceived by the more cynical as being a bit too close to the bone.


Iím quite sure that you are a decent person with good intentions and that your product works for some people, it just that these days there are a lot of charlatans about trying to scam people in all sorts of ways. This make it difficult for people to find the genuine miracle cures from the plethora of misrepresented, over-hyped and over marketed nonsense.

Anyway, I wish you and your customers good wishes, good health and speedy recoveries or all three.

P.S. I was reading the testimonials at http://www.albmaleaf.co.uk/testimonials and you may want to look at, and maybe alter, the testimonial from P.L. the tri-athlete just because, aside from another claim of you providing Physiotherapy, it also says you provided him with Ďwarming reliefí. Now I may have a rather smutty imagination when I point out this sounds a bit like a rather different sort of massage!

ratfink
24-03-2010, 10:19 AM
wow is this gel going to be marketed by acappi nexus??

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,13302.0.html

IanFitz
24-03-2010, 02:20 PM
wow is this gel going to be marketed by acappi nexus??

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,13302.0.html

don't start with the Accapi stuff. It is hilarious!!

I actually met the rep at 'the shop' the other day. he was a really decent bloke who was very honest about where accapi were at with their 'science'.

I must admit I was surprised, and actually a bit disappointed as I was looking forwards to some verbal sparring!

injury advice
24-03-2010, 07:49 PM
Me & Ian fitz Agree on most things & i Respect good Sports Physiotherapist of which i belive he is one,

The most fundemental thing we agree on is the best possible treatment & care and attention to detail for all our clients.

My name is Dave Jackson i Am a clinical sports therapist from Cumbria With 14 years clinical experience & 10 years experience in teaching Sports & remedial therapy.

I am more than happy to help forum members Talk through any injury worries & direct them to people like Ian or myself for expert & honets treatment. by the way i dont sell snake oil.
Yours Sincerely Dave Jackson

TurboTom
25-03-2010, 02:41 PM
Me & Ian fitz Agree on most things & i Respect good Sports Physiotherapist of which i belive he is one,

The most fundemental thing we agree on is the best possible treatment & care and attention to detail for all our clients.

My name is Dave Jackson i Am a clinical sports therapist from Cumbria With 14 years clinical experience & 10 years experience in teaching Sports & remedial therapy.

I am more than happy to help forum members Talk through any injury worries & direct them to people like Ian or myself for expert & honets treatment. by the way i dont sell snake oil.
Yours Sincerely Dave Jackson

Send me some to test it on my ankles and then youll have a forum-worthy testimonial

Antisocial
26-03-2010, 06:29 AM
David

You are really not helping yourself with the snake oil avatar - it could be perceived by the more cynical as being a bit too close to the bone.



The snake oil avatar was placed there by the administrators as a warning shot about free advertising. I knew nothing about it at the time and had not read the thread. I think they are tightening up on people perceived to blatantly advertise and take advantage of the forum. This is building a head of steam outside the forum itself.


Before I get abuse back :) I repeat this had nothing to do with me.

Dagwood
29-04-2010, 10:46 AM
Just sprained mine quite badly, went with a right crack. RICE has reduced the pain/swelling a lot over three days though. Does anyone know where to get the Albmaleaf sports injury gel from ?

Datt
29-04-2010, 10:24 PM
Just sprained mine quite badly, went with a right crack. RICE has reduced the pain/swelling a lot over three days though. Does anyone know where to get the Albmaleaf sports injury gel from ?



Try PM’ing the formite “Injury Advice”

genie
04-05-2010, 12:41 PM
Slipped on some horse poo yesterday whilst out on run felt outside crack.
I am a Sports physio so walked back. Then got the ice packs out, then Rubbed Albmaleaf sports injury gel on This morning a miracle no pain

I went over on my ankle as you described, loud outside crack, i have riced it for nearly three weeks, it still
has a bit of discolouring, I tried to run on it last night, and the pain came back, SO my conclusions are either
your gel really does work miracles, or you are full of that horse poo you slipped on!

ali mac
05-05-2010, 11:46 AM
You want to get it properly checked out my daughter plays football at quite a high level and she went over on her ankle and heard a snapping sound.Rice worked to initial take swelling out but 3 months down the line after no real improvement a visit to a private surgeon revealed she had snapped her ankle ligament. She had surgery 3 weeks ago and on friday iam taking her to have har cast taken off and hopefully she can start her rehab.All in all a very frustating time and if you are still in pain after three weeks i would advise a trip to a good physio.

Margarine
05-05-2010, 12:01 PM
I slipped on some albmaleaf then rubbed horse poo on it. It worked a treat.

daz h
05-05-2010, 01:10 PM
I slipped on some albmaleaf then rubbed horse poo on it. It worked a treat.

Are you setting up a sales outlet for it

Rob Furness
20-10-2010, 09:56 PM
I think I've bust my CF ligament in the rear lateral aspect of my left ankle. Out for a run on burley/ilkley moor earlier today and squiffed my foot for some reason which twisted under me and went with a loud pop/crack. It hurt like hell for about 20 secs and then I was able to walk over a stream and up the following bank before continuing to run the final steep descent reasonably well.

I cooled it in the stream at the bottom for a few minutes but then had to go. Since getting home it's swelled up on the back of the lateral malleolus and is pretty sore to touch in that area plus across the bone itself although I can weight bear ok and walking/running is a little cautious but not a problem.

Anybody more experienced like to tell me whether I should bother getting it looked at? Gut instinct is not to bother (what's another ankle sprain among friends) but I think the loud pop may have been the ligament rupturing so I don't want to leave it and end up needing surgical intervention :thunbdown:

Do I need that ligament? Surely it can't be that important :wink:

Rob Furness
21-10-2010, 02:02 PM
Anyone? It's much more swollen today and bruising is starting, things are looking down :mad:

Dixie
21-10-2010, 02:06 PM
Get it looked at quick trip to the docs I reccon.

simgreen78
21-10-2010, 02:16 PM
Agreed. I've got a history of bad ankle problems and I can tell you - don't leave it! If its bothering you enough to ask advice on here then I reckon its severe enough to get a proper opinion.

Strangely, I did exactly the same thing as you on Saturday, although not as severely. Exactly the same description of how it happened, how long it hurt for, and how I dealt with it and carried on. I've had to have a few days off since, its runnable but noticeable if that makes any sense, but experience suggests its not worth pushing it too soon for fear of doing some serious damage. Went out for a threshold four miles and I'm paying for it today :thunbdown:

Get it looked at Rob!

Rob Furness
21-10-2010, 02:30 PM
I may take your advice folks... but I'm not promising anything :D

It doesn't feel unstable or anything but it is quite swollen and bruising up nicely now so it must be a grade 2 at least

Rob Furness
24-10-2010, 05:52 PM
I'm properly confused with this now, the swelling has gone down considerably although the bruising is now showing strong and it feels pretty solid and stable again :confused:

I'm actually tempted to try a run tonight and see how it feels. I would've swore blind that I'd burst the ligament but it feels far too stable for me to think that now. I think a trip to the ankle specialist is in order.

Has anyone else ever had a nasty sprain with swelling, bruising, and a loud pop and not needed anything other than rest etc to put it right? What about further problems? I rang a GP tonight (through health insurance) to ask the question but she didn't know and advised a trip to casualty :w00t: which I thought was a bit dramatic considering I've been out walking on it today and not even had any pain.

:confused::confused:

mr brightside
24-10-2010, 06:53 PM
I wouldn't bother running on it for a good few weeks. I sprained both ankles simultaneously at the beginning of this year and they won't get better unless you stop running on them, even when you think you're over the problem one slip or bad step sends you back to the beginning. In the end i stopped for 5 weeks which is all i could manage but it wasn't enough, primarily because i'd been worsening the problem week on week by trying to run through it. The 5 weeks bought me enough to be able to race on them once a weekend and then it was a mad dash back home to get the cold packs on.

The last thing you'll want to do right now is stop running, i know, but you don't want to end up in the cycle of monotony i've been through either. Get a wobble cushion to improve your proprioception, around 20 quid.

Rob Furness
24-10-2010, 07:03 PM
I've got a wobble board but it's not the best so might be time for a new one. I've got a road race this coming weekend so I'm going to run a few miles on wednesday to see what it feels like an assess it from there. So far running hasn't seemed to irritate it although I'm only talking about very short distances.

I reckon I can tape it to manage ok on the roads but I won't be fell running for a few weeks I don't think (although I have a reputation for ignoring sensible advice including my own so I'm not promising anything). Bloody annoying

Rob Furness
26-10-2010, 10:16 PM
Swelling has gone down considerably thanks to icing and wearing a compression sock. Did a 5 mile run tonight including 2.5 mile @ tempo pace with no pain, swelling or otherwise. I must just be a drama queen :o as clearly it wasn't as bad as I thought. It did look it though.... honest

Deadlegs
26-10-2010, 10:35 PM
Swelling has gone down considerably thanks to icing and wearing a compression sock. Did a 5 mile run tonight including 2.5 mile @ tempo pace with no pain, swelling or otherwise. I must just be a drama queen :o as clearly it wasn't as bad as I thought. It did look it though.... honest

Be careful. I have had problems with my ankles and still twist them every now and then. Like you it rarely causes me long term problems but once you start going over you may find it happens more and more. Do all the exercises that you will read about on the forum and you may be ok. Don't be complacent. Go on the r**d for a while if necessary.

Rob Furness
27-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Go on the r**d for a while if necessary.

Already way ahead of you there :D

Deadlegs
27-10-2010, 09:51 PM
Already way ahead of you there :D

It can be strangely addictive. One minute I was running on t****c, the next thing I knew I was in the Loch Ness Marathon. Have barely seen a hill since Borrowdale. I am going cold turkey now and have locked my flats away.

Rob Furness
03-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Done it again!! Same ankle, 4 weeks later and this time it went whilst walking down a ramp at work and sent me flying. It's now the size of a grapefruit again and extremely sore. I went to hospital this time and had it looked at and strangely when they x rayed it they found an avulsion fracture on the lower edge of the malleolus which they said looked old (possibly the original injury?) but they weren't concerned about it. They point blank refused any sort of scan even though I told them about having an operation on the other ankle for exactly the same injury so it looks as though I'm probably going to have to nag the gp or go private like last time. Bloody NHS drives me mad at times.

Wheeze
07-12-2010, 09:11 PM
Sorry to hear about that YB. Just got running on my knacked ankle today, 5 weeks after humungous sprain. Seems to be holding out OK but I know I am just one unguarded moment away from square one like thissen!

Rob Furness
07-12-2010, 10:47 PM
I'm running in a brace at present just to give it some healing time as I keep pulling it before it's had time to heal up. All well so far

Rob Furness
14-01-2011, 12:05 PM
update - finally had and got MRI results which show damage to both CF and ATFL ligaments plus bone marrow oedema in the malleolus, talus and calcaneum. That said, I'm now running on it without a brace and it seems reasonably sturdy at the moment. I've been referred to orthopaedics so I'll see what they say

Woodzy
28-02-2011, 08:56 PM
aaarrrhhh the joys of fell running twisted my ankle sunday bruising coming out
training off for a few days (bugger)

Rob Furness
28-02-2011, 09:10 PM
I'm confused? Has this thread been constructed out of lot's of other threads? I thought I started this one, but now it goes back to 2007?

Have you been tidying up Brett?

martmason
31-03-2011, 09:28 PM
Rob, the description of your injury is exactly the same as my experience last night. Ankle turned over accompanied by a loud cracking noise followed by my yelping being heard across hardcastle crags and cold clamy sweats, after about 30 seconds i was walking about followed shortly be returning to normal running pace. We finished the last couple of miles with hardly any pain. Back at the car whilst doing my right quad stretch the bloody thing turned again although with no noise. The picture you took is identical to how mine looks now. The pain is not too bad was even considering a quick r**d blast tomorrow, not too sure that would be a good idea now although fortunately i am booked in my physio for an ongoing knee niggle on Saturday so think it may hijack my session.
Hows your progress now?

Rob Furness
31-03-2011, 09:36 PM
Sorry to hear that MM. Mine's pretty good mate to be fair, I bought a lace up ankle brace to allow me to still run off road (at the risk of going over bigstyle if anything went wrong) and took it reasonably steady with that for a while before ditching it and resuming normal running. I still find I go over on it fairly easily compared to the other ankle but now I can catch it before it actually does any damage, just a slight twinge usually. My opinion is that the ligaments are stuffed, but the surrounding muscles and tendons are strong so are holding things together ok.

I stand on one leg whilst brushing my teeth every day now to keep my balance good and that seems to help a fair bit too. If it feels ok I would run road on it, I don't think it will do it any harm. I've found that the sooner you resume running the faster the swelling goes down provided you don't go over on it again. Good luck getting it sorted.

martmason
31-03-2011, 09:50 PM
Cheers Rob, I am trying desperatley to get some reasonable fitness back and like most the thought of enforced time out is not good. I have some tubigrip that may be of some benefit even if it is just enough for quick 45min road blast tomorrow lunchtime.

martmason
02-04-2011, 12:31 PM
Well unfortunately the outcome ain't good. I have apparently ruptured my ligament and will have to have at least two weeks off any running. The physio said ligament damage pain sometimes lessens with the severity, hence being able to run home. Ok to ride so the bike will be seeing some action.

Rob Furness
02-04-2011, 02:17 PM
If you've ruptured it I imagine you'll need some surgery to put it right. That's what happened to me when I did the other ankle a few years back (ATFL rupture), I had a tendon graft and was in a pot/boot for 6 weeks. Took me a long time to get it fully right tbh. Fingers crossed the outlook is better for you.

On the plus side, the ankle they operated on for me is now rock solid and stable.

martmason
02-04-2011, 02:59 PM
Er no mention of surgery from the physio but your the second person to say that. She did say that it could be pretty u/s now and will give me muscle strengthening exercises when rehab starts in a couple of weeks to compensate for it. She did prove the injury by showing me how my foot can flop around like a wet dead fish. Looks like Fairfield will be a non starter now. Bugger.

Rob Furness
02-04-2011, 03:05 PM
Have they only diagnosed it by examination? Normally you'd have a scan to confirm. Basically, if the ligament has ruptured it most probably will not heal back together without intervention. If there's enough of the ligament left (mine was wrecked) they can reattach the damaged pieces and immobilise it to allow it to heal properly. If not then they need to do a tendon graft in place of the damaged ligament.

You can strengthen the surrounding tendons such as Peroneus Brevis/longus which should hold things fairly well, but won't stop you going over on the ankle and pulling the tendon instead or breaking your ankle. Also it leaves the possibility of problems in the future if/when you lose strength in those tendons as you age.

martmason
02-04-2011, 05:07 PM
It was just my physio who has diagnosed it, she gave it a blast on the ultrasound machine to help speed the healing process apparently. Hopefully it may not be too bad and heal naturally. The more daunting thing is the thought of removing the tape she has put on today.....

Eleanor
02-04-2011, 05:09 PM
Sorry to hear about all this Mart, you must be good and p*ssed off. Fingers crossed it isn't as serious as Rob's.

Rob Furness
02-04-2011, 05:25 PM
It was just my physio who has diagnosed it, she gave it a blast on the ultrasound machine to help speed the healing process apparently. Hopefully it may not be too bad and heal naturally. The more daunting thing is the thought of removing the tape she has put on today.....

If she has only diagnosed it through exam then it might not be a full rupture (a bit like saying you haven't broken a bone without doing an x ray), I'd be tempted to ask for a scan to confirm because the sooner it's operated on (if it is a rupture) the easier the op is. Just a thought


Sorry to hear about all this Mart, you must be good and p*ssed off. Fingers crossed it isn't as serious as Rob's.

If it is a rupture it must be as serious, rupture means the ligament has completely severed so there's not that much of a grey area.

Eleanor
02-04-2011, 11:05 PM
If it is a rupture it must be as serious, rupture means the ligament has completely severed so there's not that much of a grey area.

I know, I was trying to cheer him up but I think it may be too late for that, he's already grumpy as hell about it. Sympathies to all who have injured themselves this weekend and I'm relieved I'm not one, not this time.

martmason
03-04-2011, 09:36 AM
Well everybody in the Mason household is glad to hear I,m over the grumpy stage, I,m now starting with some tinternet retail therapy, say hello PBsports to your new number one customer lol.

martmason
03-05-2011, 08:54 AM
Sore again today after coiners race yesterday, more strapping and a bigger hole in the sand needed.:angry:

martmason
21-06-2011, 03:02 PM
Major case of groundhog day, I am sure I did'nt turn my ankle again on Sunday but it started to hurt up the side of the round sticky out boney bit on the outside of joint. It was manageable whilst running but now two days on and I can hardly walk on it, any ideas anybody. Oh and its rather swollen now :-(

zephr
21-06-2011, 05:04 PM
Uh... reading back on this... did you actually get diagnosed with a full on ligament rupture- as in, the ligament is in 2 bits...?

martmason
21-06-2011, 07:49 PM
My physio likened it to a piece of plasticine stretched past its elastic limit but not snapped. This is in a different place as damage was more on the side of my foot where this is higher up the joint but the bone feel very tender to the touch now.

zephr
21-06-2011, 09:35 PM
well... its all very connected down there... I'd ice it and get it properly checked out by a sports doctor who can actually diagnose what the heck is going on there. and take some enforced rest. Maybe not the answer youre wanting, but what I would do.

martmason
22-06-2011, 05:05 AM
Thanks for the advice Zephyr, you are correct rest is needed.

Rob Furness
31-07-2011, 05:32 PM
I've wrecked my ankle again yesterday morning. Rock gave way under me on a narrow path choked with undergrowth and I fell with my foot underneath me. It was pretty painful at first but I was able to run the remaining 2 miles or so back to the car albeit slowly and in a bit of discomfort. Today it's the size of a grapefruit again and my whole foot is swollen and going purple. Lovely, just what I wanted.

I've not bothered getting it looked at (I don't see much point really) so I'm just R.I.C.E.'ing it and hoping I can walk on it ok tomorrow for work. I can sort of hobble but that's about it today. Fingers crossed for a swift recovery.

dav657
31-07-2011, 07:48 PM
I suffered a badly swollen leg following knee surgery after I started back running too soon after the op (2 weeks). The swelling just wouldn't go away, until my physio told me to elevate my leg above my waist at every opportunity, so that the fluid could get past my knee where it could be re-absorbed. I did this while watching TV etc and slept with my feet on a pillow. The swelling soon went away.
I still get swollen legs after high mileage walking (over 30 mile), but following this procedure it's gone in no time.

Hes
31-07-2011, 10:15 PM
This thread has been really useful for me so thanks to everyone and sorry to hear you've just hurt your ankle today Rob. I sprained mine three weeks ago coming off of Robinson and heard a snapping noise shortly before feeling very sick. Had to slither down on my bum and then hop to the road. I got it x-rayed at A&E the next day and they said that it was probably torn tendons. I've had three weeks of hobbling about and now the bruising has gone and most of my foot is the normal size except around the joint which is still quite swollen and it has gone sort of solid!

I've just ordered a wobble board from Amazon and today I managed a slightly uncomfortable (but not unbearable) 1.5m run on the flat and a careful yoga session leaving out any movements that hurt. The Tree position (stood on one leg with other bent with foot pressed against inner thigh of supporting leg) seems to be a good one for interim conditioning before my board arrives. I'm going to go and see my sports physio too though. I'm desperate to get back on the fells but want to make sure I give myself the best chance of not getting a repeat injury straight away.

martmason
01-08-2011, 02:07 PM
Be careful Hes, I went through a similar process after an initial ankle sprain, visiting A&E , physio etc but after 5 weeks still no progress (including physio exercises). My last physio session was done with a specialist how very quickly had me back down to x-ray to find out my fibula was broken. :-(

Rob Furness
01-08-2011, 05:37 PM
4978

Nice!

Hes
01-08-2011, 06:21 PM
Hi Martmason, thanks for the post. As an update, yes, I think you are right to be cautious. My physio is a sports physio and deals with rugby players, football players and runners and he understands fell running. He has had a good look at me and says that the diagnosis at A&E was a bit out and that I've torn ligaments not tendons and that I won't be fell running for about three months (although I'm counting the three weeks since I did it in that). He's set me loads of exercises to do using theraband, a cushion (moving to a wobble board) etc and has recommended that I keep fit with lots of cycling, keep my overall strength up with various core exercises and squats etc and in a week or so he suggests that, if I must run:), I run on the flat only with an ankle brace. Basically he says that at this stage, if I go over on it again, my ankle has lost the ability to stabilise me and that a further injury will be much more serious and I'll be looking at surgery.

Running is a passion for me, it keeps me sane, healthy and gets me outdoors. I can't bear the thought of not being able to run in the longterm so I'm going to bite the bullet and take the time off now, get on my bike and do the exercises. He also said that he will push my ankle further than you'd normally need for general day to day use and road running and get it strong for the fells. His attitude has given me confidence (despite my initial disappointment) and maybe I'll come out of this better in the long run (excuse the pun).



Be careful Hes, I went through a similar process after an initial ankle sprain, visiting A&E , physio etc but after 5 weeks still no progress (including physio exercises). My last physio session was done with a specialist how very quickly had me back down to x-ray to find out my fibula was broken. :-(

Hes
01-08-2011, 06:28 PM
Watch it Rob...that's exactly what mine looked like only mine was a bit less hairy.:D


4978

Nice!

Rob Furness
01-08-2011, 06:33 PM
Watch it Rob...that's exactly what mine looked like only mine was a bit less hairy.:D

This is about the 5th or 6th time I've done it to that ankle (the other one I had an op on after a fully ruptured ATFL) and this is probably the worst so far but not by much, the last 4 or 5 times it has swelled about the same but not been quite as badly bruised. I suspect that was caused by having no choice but to continue to run on it to get myself off the hill and back to the car, and no chance to cool it down (last time it was bad I dunked it in a beck for several minutes soon after doing it) until I got home which was about an hour after injuring it.

I'll be taking things steady for a bit when it's feeling better, and will probably still run the fells but with a lace up brace on. That worked ok last time.

Hes
01-08-2011, 10:21 PM
Only you know what you should or shouldn't be doing and I hope that you recover quickly and are back out there soon.

For what its worth, my physio said that we runners are our own worst enemies because we just want to get back out there asap and don't do the appropriate strengthening and reconditioning or allow the healing to take place and he said the result is repeat injuries and usually the injury is worse each time until surgery is required. He gave me all the technical reasons why it would be ill-advised to run on my ankle at this stage and I am going to heed his advice. I'm no wuss and I ran through an untreated knee injury over two years ago which was the reason why I ended up seeing him last year due to all the problems caused by compensating with my other leg and not reconditioning the injured one. That's just me though. He did advise an ankle brace for running on the flat in a few weeks but not as a longterm solution which he said would be the conditioning that I'll do over the next couple months and preparing ankle to get used to the stretching, balance and load bearing required for fell running.


This is about the 5th or 6th time I've done it to that ankle (the other one I had an op on after a fully ruptured ATFL) and this is probably the worst so far but not by much, the last 4 or 5 times it has swelled about the same but not been quite as badly bruised. I suspect that was caused by having no choice but to continue to run on it to get myself off the hill and back to the car, and no chance to cool it down (last time it was bad I dunked it in a beck for several minutes soon after doing it) until I got home which was about an hour after injuring it.

I'll be taking things steady for a bit when it's feeling better, and will probably still run the fells but with a lace up brace on. That worked ok last time.

mr brightside
02-08-2011, 07:32 PM
Hes's physio sounds like he knows his runners to me! My ankle injuries are an annual delight now, except this year i've had to write off the whole spring/summer instead of trying to wing it. I've never had any luck with trying to run through ankle injuries, my latest is a pretty nasty Anterior Talofibular Ligament strain, and all the strength has left my ankle completely. My only saving grace is that the Strid Wood trail has around 1000' of climbing in it.

Hes
03-08-2011, 07:46 AM
That's the same ligament that I've damaged Mr B. Really hope you get better soon.


Hes's physio sounds like he knows his runners to me! My ankle injuries are an annual delight now, except this year i've had to write off the whole spring/summer instead of trying to wing it. I've never had any luck with trying to run through ankle injuries, my latest is a pretty nasty Anterior Talofibular Ligament strain, and all the strength has left my ankle completely. My only saving grace is that the Strid Wood trail has around 1000' of climbing in it.

Rob Furness
04-08-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm starting to wonder if I've done something serious to mine. It feels stable enough but the bruising is mental, my whole foot is purple including my toes and I have bruising as far up as about a 3rd of the way up my lower leg as well as serious swelling, especially after a day on my feet at work. I've been using compression socks whilst working to try and keep the swelling down but it hasn't helped hugely. It's really odd feeling as well, if I press my fingers into the swollen area and then remove them, it leaves a deep dent in the skin which takes a few mins to fully disappear. It's also still really uncomfortable to walk on nearly 6 days after doing it. First thing on a morning it's almost impossible to weight bear for several minutes until it warms up a bit.

I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go get it x rayed :thunbdown:

zephr
04-08-2011, 10:32 PM
Hes, your Physio speaks sense!
Rob, seriously mate, go get it seen to, better to get something done now, and not be able to run for the time being than not get it looked at, let it repair itself in an even more over-compensated state and then not really be able to run afterward....

Hes
05-08-2011, 07:18 AM
Rob, I really think you should listen to Zephr, it sounds like you've torn a ligament and they take ages to fix (and bleed which causes the bruising). Why don't you get it x-rayed to put your mind at rest re fractures and then go and see a physio. Its now been almost four weeks since I did mine and I keep thinking its a lot better but then move awkwardly and realise how bad it still is. I went cycling on a hilly route on wednesday and I couldn't push off on that leg and I felt the ankle all the way round (physio says cycling is fine though) but it did feel good to be keeping my legs strong and getting outdoors again.


I'm starting to wonder if I've done something serious to mine. It feels stable enough but the bruising is mental, my whole foot is purple including my toes and I have bruising as far up as about a 3rd of the way up my lower leg as well as serious swelling, especially after a day on my feet at work. I've been using compression socks whilst working to try and keep the swelling down but it hasn't helped hugely. It's really odd feeling as well, if I press my fingers into the swollen area and then remove them, it leaves a deep dent in the skin which takes a few mins to fully disappear. It's also still really uncomfortable to walk on nearly 6 days after doing it. First thing on a morning it's almost impossible to weight bear for several minutes until it warms up a bit.

I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go get it x rayed :thunbdown:

martmason
05-08-2011, 04:57 PM
My advice Rob would be the same as the other guys, get an xray to be sure then its just a case of listening to your body and keep following the RICE thing. If yr still not convinced then don't be affraid to get other professional diagnosis and don't be modest when asked about the pain scale. This is all based on recent my cock up and missed diagnosis so good luck and really hope you get sorted.

Rob Furness
05-08-2011, 09:48 PM
I went and had it x rayed tonight, the woman at the hospital was a bit unhelpful to be honest. I got the impression that she thought I was weird for getting it x rayed because I've been able to walk on it. This despite me telling her about previous problems with both my ankles including an avulsion fracture which I could walk on and a ruptured ligament that I could also walk on. I also told her about my mother who broke her ankle and was able to work an entire day on her feet running a pub before finally getting it looked at the next day so it clearly is possible to break it and still be able to walk. I persuaded her to x ray it due to the weird feelings I'm getting in it and the strange lumps etc that you can feel below the skin on and around the lateral malleolus. X ray came back clear (ish) but with an area on the talus that she said was a bit strange but she had no idea what it was and probably wasn't important as that area wasn't tender anyway. I do despair sometimes.

I'll have to go see my GP next week and get a private referral again, the nhs seem to have this strange opinion on ankle injuries that if it feels stable and you can walk on it you haven't done anything serious. Funny how that happened exactly the same with an ATFL rupture last time and it took a year of pestering them that there was something wrong before deciding to go private where the surgeon spotted the likely problem on the first visit, got an MRI to confirm and operated within a week. He also said to me that he could feel a little bit of play in the joint when doing the anterior draw test, but when he had put me under anaesthetic the joint was loose as hell, so it must have been held in place by my muscles alone.

martmason
05-08-2011, 10:32 PM
That does sound all too familiar Rob, I got the feeling sometimes that injury during sporting activities are a drain on A&E resources and if you don't want to get re- injured then stop. When I damaged my ligaments after a grade 2 sprain I wrongly continued running on a compromised joint after a short time. Whilst out running I developed a very acute pain down the side of the malleous area. After hobbling home the next week was spent RICEing every night, after no effect I went to a&e where after a clear xray and some clown prodding for 5 seconds diagnosed peroneal long tendonitis and sent me packing. After a week and only regression of movement I went to gp, he also said tendonitis but referee me to NHS physio. After my second session of physio where I almost passed out twice as they were adamant they could get movement back it was decided that a re visit to xray was needed. Lo and behold a fracture of my fibula, after 5 weeks of walking about and doing exercises recommended by my physio. Two weeks on and hopefully things should be mending but as a comical touch I have recieved a bill today for the anti inflams prescribed for ky tendonitis and a letter of discharge from the physio. So yes I too despair Rob, but hang in there and be persistent.

Hes
07-08-2011, 06:30 PM
There is some interesting information on Youtube about ankle sprains which explain what they are and how they should be treated and prevented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0-n-ndTAX0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP17ZY3zxa4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dznWBbwLq6k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsEV5OYghSQ&feature=related

Rob Furness
23-08-2011, 09:10 PM
Little bit of an update on my ankle. Three weeks or so on and things are feeling much better, I've rehabbed it by at first resting, followed by a fair bit of cycling/crosstrainer at home and then progressing to running again with my lace up ankle brace on and it has respoonded well it has to be said. I ran a short club run of 6m in training two weeks ago then 13m last tuesday on the leeds country way with no problems, and managed Burnsall Classic at the weekend and finished that ok too (even if my descending was a bit poor due to lack of confidence). Tonight I did another 9m with the club and not a peep from the bad ankle. I'm planning to continue with the brace for maybe another 4-5 weeks or so to allow proper healing but I suspect that the rapid recovery probably means the ligament ends have become detached and haven't rejoined, which probably means I'll need an op if it continues to cause problems in the future. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it though. For now, things are looking up :)

Hes
23-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Hi Rob, that's great that you are managing so much running and that it feels better. Well done!

I've totally steered clear of running since I tried a 1.5m three weeks into my recovery and realised how things were definitely not good. It will be interesting to compare notes longterm. Its almost seven weeks since I tore two ligaments in my ankle (it took a few weeks to realise exactly how bad it was) and I've been cycling for the last three. Lots of hilly road biking round Masham and Pateley, which has been really good fun and stopped me going mental. I've been walking in the hills with my ankle brace on and was glad of it when I slipped in the mud the other day and tweeked the ligament again...it was momentarily really painful but no lasting damage. I'm going to stick to my physio's advice and keep up with his exercises, use my wobble board, keep cycling and hope to start running on the flat with the ankle brace in a week and then progress from there. Its years since I badly sprained my ankle and although I've had a few problems turning it recently, that has been mainly because my quads and glutes on that side were weaker due to an untreated knee injury so I'm really hoping that I might stand a chance of coming back stronger from both after this rehab. Can't believe you did Burnsall! Not sure whether you are really brave or mad. I did it a couple years back and the thought of the descent with my ankle in its current state makes me shiver!

Rob Furness
23-08-2011, 10:20 PM
Can't believe you did Burnsall! Not sure whether you are really brave or mad. I did it a couple years back and the thought of the descent with my ankle in its current state makes me shiver!

Just mad I'm afraid ;) I had wanted to do it all year so didn't want to miss just because of an ankle sprain, I think I must fall into the category of fellrunner that just carries on regardless. It's certainly worked ok for me up until now so I'm not planning to change anything. If I stopped running whenever I was injured or ill or whatever, I would never be out doing it. My wife thinks I behave this way as a result of having crohn's and thus being used to just getting on with things.

Like I said though, I suspect there's nothing left of the ligament an that side and hence nothing to pull anymore which is why it has "healed" so quickly. Good luck with yours Hes, sounds like you're doing everything right. I forgot to mention that I've been doing balance stuff too, one thing I find really helpful is doing one leg squats and one leg calf raises (without holding onto anything for support) whilst brushing my teeth. This seems to quickly get the sense of balance back in order.

Hes
28-08-2011, 05:02 PM
My update is that I started to feel a lot stronger this week (all the cycling and exercises have really helped) so I tried a tentative run at our club social. It was 2.2m road relays on the flat. I got there late (had forgotten how far away the chairman's house is!) and so I didn't have a team but ran with the slowest leg runners. I wore the ankle brace and it felt ok so I did the fast leg too although I was very slow! I then had a hillier 3.2m road run without the brace on Friday and today I managed a lovely 9.2m fell run with the brace. My ankle feels really good. So much stronger and surprisingly, I didn't feel scared when I was running (the brace will have helped my confidence). I'll keep up the biking and increase the running plus loads of wobble board stuff for stability and strength. I'm thinking of fellrunning with the brace for a few weeks and gradually weaning myself off as I get stronger. A friend suggested swapping it for a compression bandage first to give the feel of support (I appreciate it won't stop me going over like the brace would) to give me a bit of confidence until I am ready to run without anything.

The physio was right. He said it would be 6-8 weeks before I could run again and its been 7. He did say that I shouldn't be fellrunning for 3 months but I am hoping he will think its ok with my brace on and I'm not doing anything too hardcore!

Rob Furness
28-08-2011, 06:36 PM
Excellent news Hes, sounds as though you're in a similar place to me and planning a similar rehab process. I'm loving being back on the fells but didn't have the patience to wait as long as you.

Rob Furness
04-09-2011, 08:57 PM
I'm in a little bit of a pickle now. Haven't managed to sort out what to do for the Yorkshireman marathon this coming weekend. I've been training fine with a brace on for the past few weeks but haven't got anywhere near the sort of distance I'll be running on the Marathon next weekend. Furthest I've gone was 13 miles in road shoes, and 9 miles in fell shoes (walsh) and whilst my road shoes feel pretty good, the fell shoes do leave my feet a bit sore. I've previously run long distance in my Mizuno Wave Harriers, but these don't comfortably fit the brace and the other shoes I have which I ran the Wharfedale marathon in are some old Mizuno trail shoes which are past it really (cushioning is uneven so make my feet ache and they give blisters). I had decided they would do anyway and ran the LCW in them today but my feet were killing by the end of it and it's looking like a no go.

I'm not sure whether to risk running without a brace yet (7 weeks since injury) and it doesn't seem prudent to do a full marathon this way, although I could carry the brace in my bumbag and put it on if things weren't going well. Another option would be to risk stuffing my feet into the Harriers and see what happens, or my final option would be to go see a physio and get them to tape my ankle just for the event on the basis that this would be a slimmer fit than the ankle brace and might give good support as a one off.

What does everyone think?

cyclops
04-09-2011, 09:22 PM
You've not mentioned the option of NOT RUNNING.

To be fair, from what you say, it doesn't sound like you're fit to run a marathon. You only have 2 ankles. Why risk further injury, making the current injury worse? Not to mention the residual imbalances that are being caused elsewhere in your body. You'll miss this race, maybe others while you get back to 100% fitness. But you only have 2 ankles. You can't buy new ankles off the shelf like a spare part for your car.

sorry to be a killjoy, just saying it how it is.

Rob Furness
04-09-2011, 09:33 PM
I've already run the distance several times this year, just not since my ankle got injured. I didn't mention not running because I'm definitely going to run it, I'm running as a pair and I'm not dropping out for this. To be honest my ankle feels fine now, no pain from it and no apparent instability either. The pain now is coming from where the brace rubs/constricts my foot. I just know from previous experience that it's likely to go again if I'm not careful (hence using a brace till I'm confident it's recovered as much as it can).

You say I only have two ankles, but one has been operated on already for the same injury (not caused by running and I wasn't a runner at the time anyway so didn't overdo it) and the other has been crocked maybe 7-8 times at least now and it doesn't seem to make much difference if I rest it or train on it, it's still crap. I just have crap ligaments on my ankles, no point worrying about it.

cyclops
05-09-2011, 07:00 AM
Rob, didn't mean to sound like I thought running a marathon was beyond yr capabilities, of that I have no doubt. my concern was whether yr body should be subjected to the distance given yr injury/recent training. you know yr body better than anyone, and what yr willing to risk by pushing through an injury. not sure what strengthening exercises you've been doing to help yr ankles, and its too late for this weekend, if yr not already doing lots of strength work on yr lower leg/glutes then you should as this will help minimise the stress on yr "crap ligaments" (yr words!). balance hedgehogs are helpful (search that on amazon). good luck to you.

Rob Furness
05-09-2011, 06:19 PM
Rob, didn't mean to sound like I thought running a marathon was beyond yr capabilities, of that I have no doubt. my concern was whether yr body should be subjected to the distance given yr injury/recent training. you know yr body better than anyone, and what yr willing to risk by pushing through an injury. not sure what strengthening exercises you've been doing to help yr ankles, and its too late for this weekend, if yr not already doing lots of strength work on yr lower leg/glutes then you should as this will help minimise the stress on yr "crap ligaments" (yr words!). balance hedgehogs are helpful (search that on amazon). good luck to you.

Cheers. I've been doing a lot of one legged stuff squats, calf raises, balance work etc. and lots of hill training for extra strength which hopefully should translate into more injury proof ankles (but I'm not hopeful if I'm honest). The leg I had an op on is now pretty much rock solid, but the other is poor. I have a wobble board but I might well invest in a hedgehog as well.

I still haven't decided what to go for though. Think I might strap it and then take my brace along as well just in case.

cyclops
05-09-2011, 07:25 PM
Get a therapist/physio to strap it properly if you don't know how to do it yourself. Those hedgehogs are great, work yr ankle/lower leg in a more focussed way than balance boards IMO. build up to doing 1 leg balances with eyes closed (tho make sure a wall is close by to steady yourself on!!). Most importantly, when you feel yr ankles are stonger/fully recovered, don't stop the balance/strengthening exercises - you need to do them all the time to keep the strength and proprioception in good order.

OB1
05-09-2011, 08:17 PM
Get a therapist/physio to strap it properly if you don't know how to do it yourself. Those hedgehogs are great, work yr ankle/lower leg in a more focussed way than balance boards IMO. build up to doing 1 leg balances with eyes closed (tho make sure a wall is close by to steady yourself on!!). Most importantly, when you feel yr ankles are stonger/fully recovered, don't stop the balance/strengthening exercises - you need to do them all the time to keep the strength and proprioception in good order.

Cyclops, sounds like sound advice. That's my shopping list priority just changed; 'hedgehogs' now promoted above 'new fell shoes'. I do regular Yoga (Astanga) which I find is very good for balance and core strength, but is probably more limited benefit for ankles, at my level anyway - which seem to have been a fell running weak spot for me over the last 9 months (first one sprained badly in January now the other in August, not quite so bad). Nothing as serious as others in this post but maybe the start of something I need to 'watch'. Must have a longer chat about this with you sometime, as well as a read of 18 pages of posts. Sorry to leave the pub so quickly after Shelf yesterday but my roast dinner was about to meet the dog (next door's dog at that!) and you and Z were about to sit down to your's (dinner not dog).

Rob Furness
05-09-2011, 09:03 PM
Get a therapist/physio to strap it properly if you don't know how to do it yourself. Those hedgehogs are great, work yr ankle/lower leg in a more focussed way than balance boards IMO. build up to doing 1 leg balances with eyes closed (tho make sure a wall is close by to steady yourself on!!). Most importantly, when you feel yr ankles are stonger/fully recovered, don't stop the balance/strengthening exercises - you need to do them all the time to keep the strength and proprioception in good order.

Thanks for that. That's my plan if I can find a physio before the event. Next question, anyone know a physio in Leeds that would be likely to have time to do it this week and wouldn't charge too much? Save me ringing round.

cyclops
05-09-2011, 09:15 PM
Cyclops, sounds like sound advice. That's my shopping list priority just changed; 'hedgehogs' now promoted above 'new fell shoes'. I do regular Yoga (Astanga) which I find is very good for balance and core strength, but is probably more limited benefit for ankles, at my level anyway - which seem to have been a fell running weak spot for me over the last 9 months (first one sprained badly in January now the other in August, not quite so bad). Nothing as serious as others in this post but maybe the start of something I need to 'watch'. Must have a longer chat about this with you sometime, as well as a read of 18 pages of posts. Sorry to leave the pub so quickly after Shelf yesterday but my roast dinner was about to meet the dog (next door's dog at that!) and you and Z were about to sit down to your's (dinner not dog).

OB1 - we can chat at the BBQ, or give us a call and come round beforehand if you like.


Thanks for that. That's my plan if I can find a physio before the event. Next question, anyone know a physio in Leeds that would be likely to have time to do it this week and wouldn't charge too much? Save me ringing round.

Rob - don't know any physio's in Leeds, sorry. I've put a call out on Twitter, will let you know if anything useful comes back.

Hes
05-09-2011, 11:39 PM
Bit worried about you Rob. I know that you are predisposed to running through injury and your Crohn's has meant that you have developed a high tolerance to discomfort and the determination not to let anything stop you but I wonder if a marathon is pushing it too far?

I've started tentatively running again and have done a 9m fell run but my ankle is definitely still not up to long distances and I am suffering from my ankle brace the same as you. I had to take it off due to the blisters on my last run but during yoga last night, it became clear just how much less flexibility and strength I have in my injured ankle. I think Cyclops is right...I was told to do loads of glute exercises, squats etc and was really good about doing them until I started feeling better and cycling loads and now I've dropped off with my physio exercises but I'm going to get back in to them asap. I'm impatient to be back running long distances because I have had a great year with LDWA events and a good three peaks but that was before the sprain...

...looks like its a slow recovery for me but I am hoping that it will be a longterm one (well, until the next injury!).

Rob Furness
12-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Sorry Hes, not got round to replying. I had my ankle taped last Friday in prep for the Yorkshireman, but had to remove the tape on Saturday as it was cutting into my Achilles. On the day I took my brace along with me, put it on, took it off again, started to put it back on and then finally decided to run without it on but carry it in my bumbag.

During the race I managed to get pains or cramp in almost every other part of my body, but my ankle stayed solid all the way round. No hairy moments, no pain & no swelling etc. afterwards so it looks like it's healed fairly well.

I appreciate your concern but I can't really change the way I am. Hope yours is healing nicely as well