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GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a rant
I have suffered for some years with a worsening back & right hip problem, but being a man done nothing about it. Till 12 months ago when I went to my GP. He showed no interest and told me I wasn't that bad as I could still walk into the surgery, he couldn't do anything for me and wouldn't refer me to a back specialist as the wait was too long + not bad enough.
I told him I kept fit and it was effecting my ability to run, I was in pain much of the time etc. etc. ..... but to no avail. Things improved when I changed the bed (to a firm one) and I stretch a lot (I worked this out), but still I suffered with one leg not functioning properly, and little feeling in the leg.
So a few weeks ago I went to the local osteopath (private), one session, some serious 'clonking' in my back and £35.00 later ..... a miracle :). Just had a follow up session and feel great. Back and hip like new.
It seriously bugs me that the NHS and GP's seem completely uninterested in those of us who make an effort with our health and fitness. Yet if I went in as a fat, smoking, unfit lardarse, I could probably have consultations, pills and disabled benefits till I die.
Is this not slightly short sighted of them?
Saw a W. Mercia runner briefly today, injured (not from running), but he was told by his GP that he shouldn't be running up and down mountains at his age, he was just plain stupid. He's the same age as me, mid 50s :mad:.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Completely agree. Most GP's are utterly unsympathetic to what we want to do or they don't know a good way out.:mad:
The specialists allied to medicine (physio/osteo/chiro) have a lot to offer. Sometimes you may be able to get there via the NHS but otherwise you have to shell out. Most importantly, listen to what they say and get them to print out an exercise programme and then bolster your knowledge with all the free resources on the net.
Also, the latest mag has a good article in it. Essentially, our 'core' is only meant to last 25 years and then its knacked. Masai Warriors run about like lunatics for 20 years and then spend the rest of their lives sitting down and being sagely. We are trying to cheat time, but why not eh??
No wriggling out of the Dragons Back now!:D
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Yep. Remember 20 years ago loosing faith with GP's as a sufferer of Chondromalacia Pattella seeking help from the doctor. I remember I hadn't seen my GP before so was mildely surprised at the stark resemblance of my GP to Mr Creosote (of Monty Python fame). I was a beguiner runner at the time and he told me I was silly to run as not everyone was up to it and I should just stop. He's probably died of a heart attack now or at least suffering chronicly with diabetes.
"A wafer thin mint for monsuir?"
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When Physio diagnosed my stress fracture in 2004 he suggested I got it x-rayed as possible additional confirmation. I went to GP to ask to be referred to X-ray dept. She said it shouldnt really come under the NHS if I had done it by running as that was my choice. But she did agree to refer me 'cos she could see it was having an effect on my normal quality of life. Gee whiz thanks doc.
Anyway, the Xrays were inconclusive after all.
But what an attitude eh? What about people who crash bikes/cars whilst making non vital trips for leisure, or break both legs doing a charity parachute jump? Do they get left lying in agony by the side of the road?
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as a teenager (long time ago) had some serious problems after a 40 mile run/walk. Doctor was very dismissive and told me that the human body wasn't built to do such things.
However been to hospital today for the last of a series of injections in my foot. Consultant knows I run and I told him about having a sore foot after XC on Saturday. He promised to try and keep me running as long as possible.
Perhaps depends on who you see?
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I don't quite get your point, Molehill.
Rather than suffer for a long time presumably the conclusion is to pay out £35.00 a session with a decent physio to get a running injury fixed. What I mean is you don't really expect your GP to deal in running injuries.
I am also uneasy with the general idea on this forum that we are more deserving cases than smokers or fat people. It may or may not be true but I do think we risk coming across as health fascists.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
It may or may not be true but I do think we risk coming across as health fascists.
I get the impression that most fell runners are hypochondriacs and are unsympathetic about injuries to other runners.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
The thing is Chris, I had pain so I went to my GP. He effectively told me that I wasn't bad enough to be worth treating, especially when I said that I still ran - even though it hurt and I limped a lot. His attitude was, if I could still walk then I wasn't a worthy case for looking at, plus he said " we can't do anything for you anyway".
So I left it for a year, and carried on, I recently though 'this is silly' I must try something - so went to see the osteo (the one he wouldn't refer me to), one session later and I'm better than for years.
Just by the way, turned out the osteo is also a runner :) and stated how much easier it was to treat people who attempted to look after themselves and stay fit etc.
I have no problems about paying out now, if he mends me, fine - but how come I couldn't get £35 worth of treatment off the NHS ? I don't ask for much from them.
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I might add that it is NOT a running injury ( my osteo said 'keep running, it's good for you). It's from an imbalance in my structure on one side, and probably 30 years of manual work lifting heavy weights.
Just squashing some nerves or something, running was a relief, usually.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Molehill if you say your injury affects your job or your quality of life you get a better response from doctors :rolleyes:
Bill
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
I am also uneasy with the general idea on this forum that we are more deserving cases than smokers or fat people. It may or may not be true but I do think we risk coming across as health fascists.
I think it's more a case of 'why aren't we given as good a service as the fat smokers?'
Also - Why do i have to pay extra money to take my bike on a plane whilst the fat bloke sitting next to me pays no more despite weighing 75% more than I do?
Travel fascist?
Add it to the list.
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I'm still gobsmacked that my GP put in a referral to the local NHS specialist centre for an ultrasound scan on my degenerative achilles tendon without even questioning the history of the problem/who suggested a scan in the first place (it was my last but one physio) etc.etc...
...still had 3 months to wait though and finally get the scan next week.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bestathlete
Travel fascist?
Could do with being less judgemental! I don't think it would be good for our sport if non-participants knew what fellrunners thought of them.
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Its not about being in our sport. Its about people who make an effort and committment to stay healthy having to put up with second rate care when they hit a problem compared to some lard-arse ne'er do well who is in the surgery every 2 minutes with some self inflicted problem or other. Remember, its called a national HEALTH service not ILLNESS service. It should be there to keep us healthy not drag us back from the edge of some self inflicted ill health precipice.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
Could do with being less judgemental! I don't think it would be good for our sport if non-participants knew what fellrunners thought of them.
Wasn't being totally serious there but if I was it would be as a thin person, not a fellrunner, cyclist etc.
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i feel a bit guilty reading these post as i have just recieved an exceptional service from my GP. i hurt my knee and it swelled up. i iced, elevated and ibuprofenned all weekend then panicked and hobbled to the drs on monday morning. he prodded about, went through all the movement stuff and asked me exhaustive questions about the injury and running prior to injury.
he did the usual no-running-for-a-month thing then referrred me, without being asked, to a physio. i was speechless. he also told me that running downhill was definately no good for knees but he understood that i wasnt going to stop so i should discuss how best to strengthen my knees with the physio! what a wonderful man
i feel double guilty because he was a bit chubby, and sometimes i do think unkind thoughts about portly people.
to be honest, i feel triply guilty because now, three weeks later my knee is totally better and coped with 15miles at the w/e and i really should not have gone to see him at all.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
Could do with being less judgemental! I don't think it would be good for our sport if non-participants knew what fellrunners thought of them.
In my experience Doctors are the most judgmental, opinionated and pompous examples of our species, and if they taught them a tiny bit of empathy at university we wouldn't even be discussing them on this thread.
I also find that, although I very rarely need to see the quack, when I do it's usually something serious, he is invariably inadequate for the task and I need to go to A&E or to see a specialist. :cool:
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Pilchard, you were lucky enough to hit on a 'Gypsy' or GPWSI, otherwise known as a 'GP With a Special Interest'. Practices now encourage each GP to develop a special interst, be it Kids, Heart Disease or, sometimes Sports Medicine. It's always worth checking at your local surgery if one of the docs has a SI in Sports Med. You may be lucky. If you live in Tylwch you will not be!:p
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yorkshire Thug
In my experience Doctors are the most judgmental, opinionated and pompous examples of our species, . :cool:
In my experience forum members are the most judgmental, opinionated and pompous examples of our species..:D
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Anyone who thinks fat people get some kind of five star service are wrong. The second you tip over from the "normal" to "overweight" category on their BMI are instantly subject to lectures, prodding, patronising and general ominous warnings about dying before their time. God preserve you if you put a couple more pounds on and reach the "obese" stage.
GP's in general are just a triage to stop people overloading hospitals. I've stopped expecting anything from them. Occasionally you find a good empathetic GP but I'm tempted to believe they are the minority.
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With patients like you lot-who'd want to be a GP!
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GP's have their own coping mechanisms. Check out Tony Copperfield.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wheeze
GP's have their own coping mechanisms. Check out Tony Copperfield.
Wheeze, you need to provide a link to Tony Copperfield's website or buy his book Primary Care Scream
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
How about this...
Same GP by the way.
Wife is involved in an RTA (car she was a passenger in is t-boned by 18+ ton lorry at 50mph and pushed for about 100m off the road and across a field) 2 nights in hospital then sent home, she needs pain killers so off to the GP, explain what happend to him but he then says her posture isn't very good (?) that could be why her back hurts?! Not got anything to do with the accident then?
2 years later...her foot hurts walking/running so off to the docs again, GP looks at foot, wiggles it about and states 'there's nothing wrong with your foot, just walk in stiffer soled shoes'...erm...can't put any weight on it, 10 minutes later he agrees to refer her...to a podiatrist which has a 6 month waiting list?!
We paid to see a foot specialist who diagnosed norton's neuroma and cut out 3.5cm growth on the nerve!!
Surprisingly we refuse to see this GP anymore!!
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
i cannoy fault the NHS
an amazin service that many countries would love to have
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanAzz
How about this...
Same GP by the way.
Wife is involved in an RTA (car she was a passenger in is t-boned by 18+ ton lorry at 50mph and pushed for about 100m off the road and across a field) 2 nights in hospital then sent home, she needs pain killers so off to the GP, explain what happend to him but he then says her posture isn't very good (?) that could be why her back hurts?! Not got anything to do with the accident then?
2 years later...her foot hurts walking/running so off to the docs again, GP looks at foot, wiggles it about and states 'there's nothing wrong with your foot, just walk in stiffer soled shoes'...erm...can't put any weight on it, 10 minutes later he agrees to refer her...to a podiatrist which has a 6 month waiting list?!
We paid to see a foot specialist who diagnosed norton's neuroma and cut out 3.5cm growth on the nerve!!
Surprisingly we refuse to see this GP anymore!!
So if you've got a foot problem go and pay and see a foot specialist.
Why would we as runners expect our GP to sort it out? G stands for "General".
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
So if you've got a foot problem go and pay and see a foot specialist.
Why would we as runners expect our GP to sort it out? G stands for "General".
I agree G stands for general but going to any kind of specialist is a lottery, some are a lot better than others, I know that is the same with GP's but when you are already paid for the GP and you are paying again for a specialist you really need some help from somewhere.
Podiatric surgons aren't cheap.
I would not expect a GP to diagnose a neuroma but I would expect a GP to be a little bit more understanding and take a bit more of an effort to diagnose before being so off hand and flippent about it.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Just as there are great runners and indifferent ones, so it is with docs or any other group. It looks like you hit unlucky. He may be ace at something else though?
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wheeze
Just as there are great runners and indifferent ones, so it is with docs or any other group. It looks like you hit unlucky. He may be ace at something else though?
I do hope so, maybe he needed a holiday!
I understand that GP's in general do have to put up with a lot, they must see loads of people where there isn't anything wrong and get fed up with it...but they are there to support/advise people with problems, even if it is sport related.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanAzz
...but they are there to support/advise people with problems, even if it is sport related.
Or are they?
I am not sure what a GP's 'official' role is....
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DanAzz
Or are they?
I am not sure what a GP's 'official' role is....
It's to tell people there's a 3 week wait for an appointment so that they can then pass the buck to A & E at the hospital swithout even seeing them if my experiences last week are to go by... :mad:
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
So if you've got a foot problem go and pay and see a foot specialist.
Why would we as runners expect our GP to sort it out? G stands for "General".
NO...if you have a foot problem then go and see the doctor, that's what our national insurance is paid for.
what next? ...when we are having an heart attack we have to show our private insurance policy before we get seen as in the united states of America?
remember these doctors and specialist have been trained with OUR money, graduated into a fabulously paid job at OUR expense, and now these specialist don't want to treat us because they can earn more money treating people who have gone private so they can jump their turn in the waiting list.
ALL doctors and specialist must work exclusively in the NHS for at least 25 years until their debts are paid back to the people who have invested so much of their hard earned taxes, and then and only then should these self interested professionals be allowed to do a very limited private work.
yours
spring heeled jack
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Listen, I'm not making a political point. If you have an injury that relates to running and you want to make it a matter of principle go to your GP and waste time. If you want it fixing find a decent physio.
I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spring heeled jack
NO...if you have a foot problem then go and see the doctor, that's what our national insurance is paid for.
what next? ...when we are having an heart attack we have to show our private insurance policy before we get seen as in the united states of America?
remember these doctors and specialist have been trained with OUR money, graduated into a fabulously paid job at OUR expense, and now these specialist don't want to treat us because they can earn more money treating people who have gone private so they can jump their turn in the waiting list.
ALL doctors and specialist must work exclusively in the NHS for at least 25 years until their debts are paid back to the people who have invested so much of their hard earned taxes, and then and only then should these self interested professionals be allowed to do a very limited private work.
yours
spring heeled jack
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Wow, this has got people fired up... everyone has an opinion on the NHS... which is one of the reasons it has problems in the first place... i.e. because it is used as a political football.
GP's are by definition General Practitioners so I agree with Chris, you will mostly be disapointed if you expect them to solve all your problems. They are unfortunately the gatekeepers to the rest of the NHS though. In my experience, if you do a bit of research yourself and therefore know what it is you want, they will refer you because it gets you out of their office.
The good news is that soon you will be able to self refer to physiotherapy on the NHS. There has been a successful pilot project in Scotland and work is underway to role it out nationwide. Still doesn't mean that you'll get a physio with expertise in sports medicine but it will be a positive step.
JLS
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
Listen, I'm not making a political point. If you have an injury that relates to running and you want to make it a matter of principle go to your GP and waste time. If you want it fixing find a decent physio.
I
this matter of principle i have done. i don't think people here are saying that hamstrings and achilles strains should be treated on the nhs and most would go to the physio any way but injuries such as backs, hips, knee and hernias all of which can be caused by running should be expected to be treated with sympathy, speed, care and attention that OUR taxes pay for.
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"remember these doctors and specialist have been trained with OUR money, graduated into a fabulously paid job at OUR expense, and now these specialist don't want to treat us because they can earn more money treating people who have gone private so they can jump their turn in the waiting list.
ALL doctors and specialist must work exclusively in the NHS for at least 25 years until their debts are paid back to the people who have invested so much of their hard earned taxes, and then and only then should these self interested professionals be allowed to do a very limited private work."
er.... hasn't everybody been trained with our money to one extent or another? Should lawyers, CEOs of large companies, plumbers, physicists all have to work for the state for 25 years??
Less than 30% of NHS consultants do ANY private work. The government screwed up the new consultant contract because they thought it would force people to do more NHS work - in fact it transpired that the average consultant did in excess of 50 hours per week for the NHS and all the sums were wrong causing a huge extra pay bill for the treasury - d'oh.
I would count non-serious repetitive use training injuries as somewhere in the sports equipment / nutrition / luxury item field that we might reasonably be expected to pay for or wait for - and I HATE private medicine
cheers P
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After reading most of the post's, I feel I must stick up for my GP, as he has always tried to help me in any way he could, (even when I don't listen to him and go back a few weeks later even worse!!!) I should point out he is a runner though.......... and has just joined Horwich:D maybe you lot should "shop around" for a better GP!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chris
So if you've got a foot problem go and pay and see a foot specialist.
Why would we as runners expect our GP to sort it out? G stands for "General".
No, if you've got a foot problem you go and ask your GP about it. Even if you are sure the ailment you have is due to running you should still see your GP first if only to ask to be referred to a specialist/physio/podiatrist etc.
You may be unable to put up with the problem until you get to the top of the waiting list and decide to pay privately instead, but to go down the private route before trying anything else is like sending your kids to a public school without even looking at the state schools available locally (which may happen to be superb performers). Very nice if you can easily afford it, but for the huge majority of citizens not an option.
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bestathlete
No, if you've got a foot problem you go and ask your GP about it. Even if you are sure the ailment you have is due to running you should still see your GP first if only to ask to be referred to a specialist/physio/podiatrist etc.
You may be unable to put up with the problem until you get to the top of the waiting list and decide to pay privately instead, but to go down the private route before trying anything else is like sending your kids to a public school without even looking at the state schools available locally (which may happen to be superb performers). Very nice if you can easily afford it, but for the huge majority of citizens not an option.
Well it doesn't really compare to sending your kids to private school rather than a state school.
We're only talking about maybe 20 quid a session and not several thousand quid. If you can afford running shoes and fancy gear you can afford a physio.
Doctors go to physios if they have running injuries don't they?
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Re: GP's, NHS & sportsmen - a
Certainly some opinions here, just need YT to add his bit to the debate :D .
I had a back problem (NOT running induced problem, but it was affecting my running considerably). My GP told me I could still walk so wasn't that bad, there was nothing he could do for me (no examination) and would not refer me to a specialist, as there were more important cases and too long a waiting list.
So I put up with it for another 12 months, believing I would just have to wait till I was totally crocked.
In desperation 3 weeks ago I booked an appointment with the osteo (the one that also treats the NHS referrals), and 1/2 hour later my back is better than for years. :). Hardly surprising I was p****d off with the GP.
If I was in charge of the NHS :eek:, I would give all fit, healthy, sporting types preferrential treatment for everything. And the rest could bloody well wait at the back of the cue. Sod 'em. Sorted.