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Bridleways and footpaths
I was training on the route of the Lyke Wake today , just below Shunner Howe, i saw a man wheeling his MTB . I told him it wasn't a bridleway, just to advise him really. His reply was that it wasn't a footpath????????? yeah right.
I get a bit sick of some idiots (this fella was intelligent , no chav) cycling on footpaths, it wasn't rideable , hence him pushing. I cycle too so this isn't a rant against MTBs , just against those who can't be arsed to read symbols on maps, or do then ignore them anyway.
Today i saw 2 adders on the path, wonder if he slowed to avoid them, i only just noticed them whilst running.
Whats anyone think about this? Am i being too pedantic?
I believe in Live and let live but not at the expense of the environment.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
In Scotland we all seem to get along fine either on bike or on foot. Maybe its a case of live and let live. Was he bothering you? Not sure which part of the LWW you were on but certainly east of Blakey Ridge a lot of it isn't a public foot path in the legal sense so perhaps he had a point.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
In Scotland cyclists are legally allowed to go where walkers can go.
Cyclists get a very poor deal in Engalnd and Wales.
Here's an interesting article about cycling in the countryside.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clodhopper
In Scotland we all seem to get along fine either on bike or on foot. Maybe its a case of live and let live. Was he bothering you?
Perhaps it's because the paths are less heavily used in Scotland? In the Peak and the Lakes the bikes are a big erosion problem.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Joe
Perhaps it's because the paths are less heavily used in Scotland? In the Peak and the Lakes the bikes are a big erosion problem.
Ah so it's not the hundreds of thousands of walkers then?
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
LOL, I was going to make a point about the erosion up mountains such as Grisdale Pike, which is clearly the result of walkers/runners and the minimal impact of mountain bikers in the Lakes, due to their vastly fewer numbers, regardless of whether you accept that bikes cause less erosion than walkers in a lot of cases, but I'm a bit busy to be writing essays tonight.
Worth noting though - I caused more erosion running off Scafell Pike when I did the Borrowdale a couple of years ago than in all my time mountain biking.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
XRunner
In Scotland cyclists are legally allowed to go where walkers can go.
In England we go one better, anywhere a cyclist can go so can motorcycles and 4 x 4s
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
I was reading somewhere about cycles and motorbikes on footpaths. Someone had been taken to court for pushing a motorbike down an alleyway with the engine off. It was ruled that they were not breaking the law on footpaths as they were pushing not riding. If they were to scoot along the footpath with a foot on a peg or in the case of a bike on a peddle then they are riding it so contravene the law. In this case mentioned above at that particular point they weren't breaking the law. but of course they wouldn't dream of riding along that path ;)
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Its a big can of worms this one. I always find with a bit of consideration and common sense we can all enjoy the countryside together. There is always a minority that seem to want to spoil it for the majority though!
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alf Tupper
I was training on the route of the Lyke Wake today , just below Shunner Howe, i saw a man wheeling his MTB .
As the previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alf Tupper
I told him it wasn't a bridleway, just to advise him really. His reply was that it wasn't a footpath????????? yeah right.
He could have been lost, as I do all the time (when running as well!) Usually some gruff farmers tries to stop me crossing their land, and I explain that I am lost! They usually guide me in the right direction.
Or he genuinely thought it was a bridleway!
There is an unadopted path that paople complain at bikes going down near me (private land that belongs to a friend) which when you point out that techically you cannot even walk down it as well, they don't believe me! Just that it would be too hard to security fence it in so he lets people use it!
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
My understanding was that both bikes, motor bikes and horses were classed as unnatural accompaniments, so you can't even push them on the pavement, or on a footpath legally?
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
But if you drive a BMW, Porche or large 4x4 you can park it there :)
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
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Originally Posted by
skennaugh
Its a big can of worms this one. I always find with a bit of consideration and common sense we can all enjoy the countryside together. There is always a minority that seem to want to spoil it for the majority though!
Pretty much agree, though do you not find sometimes on the IOM it's often not clear whether there's a no bikes area or not. I try and avoid riding on footpaths, especially where it tells you not to, but I have on a number of occasions pushed my bike along a footpath where bicycles were forbidden (not realising it was a no bikes path until I got to it, I needed to get through to a specific point to continue my ride). No-one said anything and I like to think I was following the rules (not riding it), but I suppose it only takes one person to kick up a fuss.
Mind you over here, it appears that a lot of landowners are a lot more enlightened than across, and they don't even seem to object to you running/walking over their land as long as you don't disturb their stock. That said, I make a special effort to either avoid areas where races pass through, or at least seek permission before crossing that land if on a recce.
Just wondering who owns that land down by Injerbreck as I want to find a faster + clearer route up Colden for next years MMM. In the past have just gone the normal way, but this thread (& richies comments) have set me thinking who exactly it belongs to and should I be getting permission to cross the land?
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
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Originally Posted by
Gravymuncher
My understanding was that both bikes, motor bikes and horses were classed as unnatural accompaniments, so you can't even push them on the pavement, or on a footpath legally?
Yer - strictly speaking, you have to CARRY your bike to comply with the law on a footpath. Bit of a bugger if it happens to be a Kawasaki or an Arab stallion - but, as they say, the law is the law.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
The cyclist wasn't lost and claimed he rides it a lot. Yes although the tracks east of Blakey are no denoted as public footpaths, it's pretty damn obvious they are and continuous use means they will be eventually. There should be access for all outdoor users but my point is , if it damages the environment then don't use it.There are miles and miles of good cycleable bridleways nearby, the old railway , George Gap Causeway etc. This turkey decided he was going to cycle it and thats that. Locally to me footpaths are used by some folks on bike often at too fast a speed considering small children and dogs around. These modern Mountain Bikes are no small machines .
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alf Tupper
The cyclist wasn't lost and claimed he rides it a lot. Yes although the tracks east of Blakey are no denoted as public footpaths, it's pretty damn obvious they are and continuous use means they will be eventually. There should be access for all outdoor users but my point is , if it damages the environment then don't use it.There are miles and miles of good cycleable bridleways nearby, the old railway , George Gap Causeway etc. This turkey decided he was going to cycle it and thats that. Locally to me footpaths are used by some folks on bike often at too fast a speed considering small children and dogs around. These modern Mountain Bikes are no small machines .
But high volumes of walker/runners damage the environment severely and the LWW particularly suffers from this. Did your cyclist create more damage than the thousands of walkers who passed previously? If not why should the cyclist be picked on where environmental issues are concerned? I remember the LWW east of Blakey was about 20' wide over a lot of its length. Was this caused by cyclists?
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
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Originally Posted by
clodhopper
But high volumes of walker/runners damage the environment severely and the LWW particularly suffers from this.
Not as much damage as the bleedin' moto x meeting that was held on Sunday across the only decent path I've got near me! :mad:
It's was barely runnable anyway after last year when they dug it up with a JCB!
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dominion
Not as much damage as the bleedin' moto x meeting that was held on Sunday across the only decent path I've got near me! :mad:
It's was barely runnable anyway after last year when they dug it up with a JCB!
Yeah. and dont get me onto horses. And cows, they should be shot ;)
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
I'm tempted to find out who gave permission for the moto x event by me. They used to use the side of the hill, then last year they added a lap on the flat at the top of the 'hill', which they cleared with a JCB. I think it's actually private land with a 'permissive path' granted to the Woodland Trust, so I guess someone has actually allowed them to completely trash it. :(
It's dry at the moment so apart from being badly rutted it's passable. Once it rains it'll turn into a quagmire.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dominion
I'm tempted to find out who gave permission for the moto x event by me. They used to use the side of the hill, then last year they added a lap on the flat at the top of the 'hill', which they cleared with a JCB. I think it's actually private land with a 'permissive path' granted to the Woodland Trust, so I guess someone has actually allowed them to completely trash it. :(
It's dry at the moment so apart from being badly rutted it's passable. Once it rains it'll turn into a quagmire.
Once in the Gunnerside Gill area when there was some kind of moto x event using the same one foot wide path I was on. not at all nice.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clodhopper
Yeah. and dont get me onto horses. And cows, they should be shot ;)
Most of them are shot - eventually!!
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Fair point clodhopper, he probably wasn't causing anymore erosion than years of walkers, but, he wasn't doing it any good either. If there are alternatives which are more suited to MTB's then i feel they should be used. Although he wasn't moving fast enough to be hazardous, some inconsiderate bikers do not slow down. I run with my dog and some have actually aimed at her 'for a laugh'. This kind of totally irresponsible and cruel behaviour spoils a nice day out running. I like to talk these things over but God help the next one that tries it, i think his pump may find a new resting place.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
You're suggestion has one fatal flaw; there are alternatives that are more suited to running too. Perhaps all runners should run on the track, so that they don't cause erosion as well?
Not only are there fewer mountian bikers, but each one causes less erosion than walkers and runners in most cases - eg unsightly steps all the way up Grisdale Pike that are the result of walkers and runners all stepping in the same places. Same coming down hills; bikes flow over the ground, while runenrs and walkers are constantly fighting the terrain and causing erosion.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
I think the main point here is that if everyone, be it walker, runner, cyclist, whatever, if they all behave responsibly we should be able to get along fine. I think it's unwise to start pointing the finger at one perpetrator while conveniently ignoring another.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gravymuncher
You're suggestion has one fatal flaw; there are alternatives that are more suited to running too. Perhaps all runners should run on the track, so that they don't cause erosion as well?
Not only are there fewer mountian bikers, but each one causes less erosion than walkers and runners in most cases - eg unsightly steps all the way up Grisdale Pike that are the result of walkers and runners all stepping in the same places. Same coming down hills; bikes flow over the ground, while runenrs and walkers are constantly fighting the terrain and causing erosion.
And if the ground is wet and muddy?
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
The worst erosion is caused by rain running down channels in the path. This can be caused by sheer numbers of walkers, but the easiest way is to ride bikes down soft paths on steep slopes when they're wet - hence it's irresponsible to ride on such paths (and you'll find very few of these are bridleways).
On the other hand it is ludicrous to find made-up tracks that are perfect for bikes with "No Bikes" signs. Although I'm pro enforcement of "bikes only on bridleways" I'm also in favour of reassigning many footpaths for bikes. I'm not just a kill joy!
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
I don't mind meeting mountain bikes..........but I would like more warning when they are going to over take me. Maybe ring a bell or something........:confused:
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
I agree Wily vet , a large hooter would be nice. Some don't shout , i do and slow down, god, why is everyone in a rush? There's miles of the good stuff out there.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
I find the same is true when you're running too. You can frighten the life out of people. I find a gentle clearing of the throat (ahem style) does the trick.
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Re: Bridleways and footpaths
True Clodhopper. Must admit on narrow country roads , (if i have to use them) , i pick up a stick so that cars will give me more room.I carry it in a horizontal position , seems more bothered about paintwork than me or my dog.
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Went for a lovely run up Round Hill from Timble this morning. Sadly the path had been badly chewed up by OFFROAD MOTORBIKES. This is illegal - there are signs at all entry points saying 'No motor vehicles'. The riders risk having their bikes confiscated. I will be reporting this to the police.
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I have been asked to discuss mount my mountain bike while on footpaths.
Around Buckstones edge the off road motor bikes although illegal keep paths visible and open.
Different views.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stagger
I have been asked to discuss mount my mountain bike while on footpaths.
Around Buckstones edge the off road motor bikes although illegal keep paths visible and open.
Different views.
Dis mount
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Already a serious issue with MTB on the west Pennine Moors and on my last run on Winter Hill there were two motorbikes (who had removed their number plates so they could not be reported easily) and a 4wd vehicle had chewed up the descent to Belmont.
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Holy thread resurrection MattPo!
I thought it was current until I saw a whole list of old regulars who have not posted for years! Gravymuncher, Marrow, Rudolph Hooker, where are you now??!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wheeze
Holy thread resurrection MattPo!
I thought it was current until I saw a whole list of old regulars who have not posted for years! Gravymuncher, Marrow, Rudolph Hooker, where are you now??!
Haha! Good point Wheeze. Marrow - still running pretty fast, in a Holmfirth vest these days. Rudolph Hooker - saw him in the pub last Thursday.
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Does anybody here know the correct etiquette for a biker passing a pedestrian from behind?
I was knocked flying this morning by a cyclist this morning running down a single track lane. I was running full pelt and heard a shout, I looked over my shoulder and saw nothing but jumped up the bank to avoid whatever it was and he absolutely clattered me. He obviously hadn't slowed down at all. He started shouting at me and calling me all sorts of names. Said he told me to stay still and that I was an idiot. I gave it right back and said all I'd heard was a shout, which could've been anything and that it was up to him to give me the correct care given that he was aware of me well before I was.
I had to walk 3 miles home and was lucky the sun was out for once. Hopefully there's not much more than a slight twist and a bad graze to get over.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
thegnigma
Does anybody here know the correct etiquette for a biker passing a pedestrian from behind?
I was knocked flying this morning by a cyclist this morning running down a single track lane. I was running full pelt and heard a shout, I looked over my shoulder and saw nothing but jumped up the bank to avoid whatever it was and he absolutely clattered me. He obviously hadn't slowed down at all. He started shouting at me and calling me all sorts of names. Said he told me to stay still and that I was an idiot. I gave it right back and said all I'd heard was a shout, which could've been anything and that it was up to him to give me the correct care given that he was aware of me well before I was.
I had to walk 3 miles home and was lucky the sun was out for once. Hopefully there's not much more than a slight twist and a bad graze to get over.
I think the fundamental rule of etiquette, anywhere (footpaths, bridleways, roads), is that the faster mover should be prepared to give way to the slower. We runners should treat walkers with respect, cyclists should give way to runners (where the cyclist is going faster), and motorists be prepared to slow down for cyclists.
The cyclist who hit you was clearly out of order. It is fine to give a shout when approaching from behind, but he should also have had a hand on the brake lever and been prepared to slow down to your pace until it was clearly safe to overtake; and he had no right to expect you to stay still.
For myself, if I was running and became aware of a cyclist trying to overtake, I would keep going in a straight line to make my movements predictable to the cyclist as he looked for an opportunity to overtake. The danger with moving to the side is that the cyclist might move to the same side.
Anyway, I hope your injuries are nothing serious.
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A walking pole could also come in handy.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
anthonykay
I think the fundamental rule of etiquette, anywhere (footpaths, bridleways, roads), is that the faster mover should be prepared to give way to the slower. We runners should treat walkers with respect, cyclists should give way to runners (where the cyclist is going faster), and motorists be prepared to slow down for cyclists.
The cyclist who hit you was clearly out of order. It is fine to give a shout when approaching from behind, but he should also have had a hand on the brake lever and been prepared to slow down to your pace until it was clearly safe to overtake; and he had no right to expect you to stay still.
For myself, if I was running and became aware of a cyclist trying to overtake, I would keep going in a straight line to make my movements predictable to the cyclist as he looked for an opportunity to overtake. The danger with moving to the side is that the cyclist might move to the same side.
Anyway, I hope your injuries are nothing serious.
Riding a horse along a bridleway when cyclists appear is often interesting! To be fair, most slow or stop if it's tight, which is always much appreciated. Very occasionally, you'll find some cyclist with very little animal sense who flashes by in bright colours, putting themselves, the horse and rider at potentially great (fatal) risk.
As a runner, running from my house along the lane to the fell I often meet one of my neighbours who trains Dales, out on a training ride. It's always polite and prudent to stop and wait quietly until they've past, as young horses can easily spook at bright coloured pertex tops, etc.