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I am planning to enter a modest "course nature" in France in 2017 but really don't want to pay c£50 for the required medical certificate. I'd like to mock one up for myself, but I don't know what they look like. If anyone could scan and email me a copy of one I'd be very grateful.
Here's an example of one I'm using for the Marmotte Cycle Challenge next year. Attachment 8591
Thanks very much. I'm puzzled - do race organisers always supply a template form specific to their race, which has to be completed by one's doctor, or do they sometimes demand that the doctor supply his/her own form or letter? And if the certificate is supposed to last for one year, is it returned to the applicant? How does that work if it is specific to the race? I'd be grateful to anyone who can enlighten me.
You might want to check out this thread:
http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...al+certificate
PeteS, thanks SO much. Exactly what I need. As my GP does parkruns, I'm hoping that if I arrive with this form all nicely printed out, she won't charge me just for adding her name and stamp. And thanks to Tussockface and Vampire too.
When I did a bike race in France, they just took my British Cycling licence to be prove of my fitness to compete. Is there no scope for just flashing your FRA membership card at them on the start line? :-)
Chevin, I wouldn't want to risk all the trouble and expense of entering, training for and getting to a race in France and then be forbidden to run at the very last moment. The uncertainty and anxiety beforehand would be tough, even if the strategy worked. However, I woud be ready to risk forging a medical certificate, which I'm pretty sure would be successful, and which would be a victimless crime since the only point is to let the organisers off the hook if I drop dead. I believe members of the french clubs qualify for races without a certificate, but this is because you have to have a medical certificate to join a french club! Otherwise it might have been cheaper (and more fun) to join a french club rather than pay the OTT fees some GPs charge.
I think the key thing about any fraud is that it's always best to discuss it on the internet first. ;)
But seriously, good luck with the race.
Ha, and I bet the anxiety of missing a race is far worse than the anxiety of being arrested for forging a medical certificate.
Getting on that start line should always come first eh Alexandra?
Indeed who knows who reads the Forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by noel
I once passed comment on here about a history of Italian cycling (Pedalare! Pedalare!) written from a sociological/historical perspective by a Professor at London University: and he then wrote to me!
Anyway, about this bank robbery I'm planning... :)
I hope you have second thoughts and don't put your GP in this position!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
I would have though her GP is the one person who knows she does not have any fitness issues that would be relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
Her GP may know her current health and fitness status well, in which case my statement is partly irrelevant, but to have a form thrust upon you in a non professional setting does not strike me as ideal. Is seeing somebody in the park examining them? Is reviewing them in a different context on a previous occasion good enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry
Banks have all gone plastic and online so you're better off raiding the local supermarket :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapper
Or perhaps a bike shop? The one near Lefty must be rolling in money.:)
My doctor charged me £25 to sign a medical certificate
I'm doing transgrancanaria
No, I didn't mean I'd ask my GP to sign a form at a parkrun. IMO that would be seriously bad behaviour on my part. I meant that the fact that she runs parkruns and that we sometimes run the same one suggests that she would look sympathetically on my ambition to run a French race. Since at 74 I have LOTS of things wrong with me, my GP sees me frequently, and I was imagining taking advantage of one of these sessions to produce my form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
Sorry for misunderstanding your post! All the best with the race - and a Happy Xmas!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
Does the second paragraph in this link help?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandra
http://www.fellrunner.org.uk/englandathletics.php
England Athletics may believe that to be the case but in my experience producing an EA Licence is likely to meet with a Gallic shrug and a flat "Non".Quote:
Originally Posted by mapper
Thanks, Mike, no problem. Actually, my recent racing in France project is now dead in the water, but it's still good to have sorted out the possibilities for an unknown future. Best wishes for your training and racing in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike T
I know we've covered this topic before, but I contacted my GP Practice today to get a signature on a fitness to race form and was told that it would cost me £63. This is to take part in one low-key French event which is only €20 to enter.
£63 seems a ridiculous amount, especially as the doctor isn't even saying I need a medical, just a 5 minute appointment with a nurse.
I'm sure I save the medical practice vast sums by staying fit and never having to take up their time or resources. I'm now not sure what to do. I might try to argue the UKA case with the organisers - that UKA state that their competition licence is normally valid abroad in lieu of a medical note. I am however all too aware that this goes against my own advice earlier on this thread. If I can't persuade the race organiser in advance to accept my UKA card, I'll need a plan B - which might involve changing my GP to one who is prepared to support healthy lifestyle choices.
Are fees on the scale now the norm, or is my GP being particularly mercenary?
I needed a GP referral letter to a physio on my health insurance which I fully expected to pay for but there was no charge It seems rather random for a supposedly National Health Service. Perhaps it will be better if GP's are directly employed which seems to be one idea currently doing the rounds.
You are not alone, last year I spent roughly the same. Wouldn't have minded if the doc actually did something beyond take my blood pressure and be impressed by my heart rate. Total con!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussockface
Yes: for my £63 I don't even get to see the doctor at all!
I've got my French son-in law on the job of contacting the RO to see if he'll accept my UKA licence. I fear the worst, especially as the organiser is (genuinely) called Monsieur Grognon - Mr Grumpy!
GPs are not allowed to charge a fee for referring, NHS or private.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfella
Nor are they allowed to accept kickbacks from the provider.
Be careful what you wish for re: a salaried service. Most of us GPs work way beyond our contracted hours and responsibilities. This is not likely to be the case in a salaried service, it's just human nature.
FWIW I sign these forms without charge BUT I do insist on a chat with people to explain that they are useless, have no protective value over their health and they have no form of redress to me if they fall over competing.
I don't charge, because they are worthless, and to do so would be indecent.
I don't examine people, because(and it sounds counterintuitive) there's nothing you can find with hands and eyes and stethoscope in an athlete in training that might be a problem several weeks or months hence. Most non-invasive testing is useless as well(ECG, echo, lung function etc)
Without the form, you can't race, so I check that people know what they are letting themselves in for, have done some sort of sensible training, and know the stories(sadly, there are always recent stories) of competitors in local or national events who have had issues, some of them lethal.
Then I wish them good luck.
And half the time wish I was in their event too.
A GPs Tips for getting form signed if you are having problems:
Print out the Race RO form, or mock up one from internet. Examples abound.
Get a phone appt with your GP(don't tell reception it's about a 'medical') explain the situation, and that you know it's nonsense, but ask politely and apologise for taking up NHS time with your personal obsession.
However DON'T MINIMISE IT. My signature is not 'just' a signature; it took 10 years training to get to the point where my signature has some perceived value, or at least by Euro ROs.
I've spent another 21 years since thinking twice and checking twice every time I sign any report, letter or... prescription - dozens of times every working day. During that time I've got to know you and your family, and I've maintained and updated a record of you that is lifelong and almost always 100% complete and accurate. I have an ongoing commitment to you and yours about ANY health matter you want to walk in and talk about.
And I worry that I'm the one your wife will come looking for when you die of heat exhaustion in the Marathon de Medoc and blame me, rather than your ill advised wine-based hydration regime. My medical defence insurance fees are around £9,000 a year.
(this is part of the justification for charging people for the time their personal obsessions take)
Like it or not, my 'status' is what is being asked to validate your entry; don't inadvertently say "can you just...?"
Explain that it is a medical release/ permission form that needs signing, and NOT 'a medical'.
Explain that you are adequately trained and experienced; it's only the Eurocrats that need it(UK races are all self-declaration) and you know what you are letting yourself in for.
Explain that you've done loads of UK races and never needed a form, it's just the Eurocrats.
Make it easy for the GP, make it clear the responsibility is yours.
Apologise again.
('medical' tends to be interpreted by receptionists as something needing and examination and time; most GPs charge +/- £180 per hour for non-NHS (i.e Private) work, so around £15-25 per 10 minutes)
It only needs a signature +/- stamp.
Possibly offer to donate £ to the charity of your GP's choice/ Mountain Rescue/ Lifeboats/ Medecin sans Frontier
Ask if you can leave it at reception, and collect it yourself (or enclose SAE) - make it easy.
You don't really need a face-to-face appt, but some may insist.
Seeing a nurse is pointless(I like nurses, I married one, but they can't help you here)
This would take 10 minutes of my working week, with some involvement of my receptionists, admin and switchboard, but if it's like any normal week, it's 10 minutes squeezing something else out.
Some surgeries just have a hard line and charge for all non-NHS contracted work.
The approach outlined above maximises your chances in my opinion.
It would be wrong of me to advocate printing the form, signing with an illegible squiggle yourself and winging it.
But this also happens
David, full time NHS GP
Thanks for that detailed advice, David.
It's actually pretty close to what I did - even down to supplying a form, pre-filled, and a stamped addressed envelope. I was conscious of not wanting to be a burden on valuable GP/NHS time simply to satisfy French bureaucracy. Even though it was acknowledged that no actual medical examination was involved, and the doctor would not see me personally, this made no difference and I was simply told, with no justification or reasoning behind the fee, that it was £63 or no signature. I'd be interested to know how that sum was arrived at.
I find this GP's attitude particularly annoying because, as a school leader, I've spent decades happily giving up my own time to fill in passport forms for families. I do this simply because it helps people, and to me is part and parcel of having professional standing within a community. There has never been any thought of charging a fee, though occasionally when families have offered payment I've thanked them and suggested they make a donation to a charity of their own choice.
I can only say that I wish you were my GP!
If the form says something like "I have examined ..." then I feel - to be fair to both the doctor concerned and you, then you need to have been examined - though not necessarily on the date the form is stamped and signed, of course.
Perhaps my way forward then is to demand immediate, intensive, invasive and intimate examination. For £63 I should expect no less.
On drmorris's scale of fees, I anticipate a minimum of 20 minutes' worth of fun.
Unless, of course, the examination revealed something unexpected and of which you might have wished to remain in blissful ignorance.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussockface
Monsieur Grumpy turned out to be very reasonable and accepted my England Athletics credentials without my having to obtain a medical certificate.
In our experience European race organisers are happy to accept the England Athletics card as proof of 'fit to race'. Gary has raced in France for many years and has not been asked to provide a medical certificate if he has shown his EA card.
Debbie
www.pyrenees-haven.com
[QUOTE=Pyrenees Haven;633520]In our experience European race organisers are happy to accept the England Athletics card as proof of 'fit to race'. Gary has raced in France for many years and has not been asked to provide a medical certificate if he has shown his EA card.
Hi Debbie
I'm hoping to do the Dent d'Orlu race (in your neck of the woods I believe?) while on holiday next month. I'm guessing that will be the case with this race then?
[QUOTE=dangilbert;633625]Correct, an EA card is all you need, I would pre enter as it is getting very popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrenees Haven
Debbie
www.pyrenees-haven.com
Thanks, I'll get my entry in sharpish then.
I entered the Argentrail race in the Chamonix Valley this year, and uploaded a photo of my EA card in lieu of a medical certificate. I was asked whether it 'covered me for racing in France' and I stated that it was regularly accepted by French organisers but that it was at the discretion of each one. I heard no more about it and picked up my race number without any issues, had a cracking time at the first running of the race.