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Thread: Depression

  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by wharfeego View Post
    I would be interested to know how that "battle" manifests itself; is it kept in the mind, or does it cause physical symptons within the body?
    It causes physical symptoms in me. Not surprising really, since the mind and body are very much linked. Lack of energy, loss of appetite - or overeating, inability to sleep at night or stay awake during the day, and sometimes a tangible pain where I imagine my stomach to be - or perhaps slightly lower.

    How about you Wharfy? How does it affect you?

  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leaf View Post
    This is my starting point - my 'depression' or whatever it is, is my fault. '.
    Leaf, thats such a simple sentence but very telling. The use of the label 'fault' is such a block to improvement. By calling your perceptual uniqueness a fault is key to your problem. Its not a fault. As Mr B explains, its the result of your way of processing the world and creating your own 'reality'. And that is unique to you. But, just as we can all be trained to use our physically individual bodies into a harmonious group, so can all our unique mental identities be trained to be harmonious and happy. This, I guess, is the foundation of Therapy.

    So, perhaps by not calling it a fault but your unique mental identity, you can begin to accept the help of others to lift you to a more harmonious place?
    I am Kuno....

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by wharfeego View Post
    I would be interested to know how that "battle" manifests itself; is it kept in the mind, or does it cause physical symptons within the body?
    Physical. Weight loss through Serotonin interruptions, nasal congestion through emotional congestion, Eczema, Kidney malfunctioning, sleep loss, bruising through self-harm, destruction of assets through rage and anger.

    All that aswell as the panic attacks and depression, which are kept in the mind.
    Can't climb for toffee...

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    Thanks for that Luke.

    I disagree with some of it and don't understand other bits.

    But praise the lord if it works for you ��

    Anyone heard from Wharfy lately?
    No problem mate. I know it can all sound a bit patronising coming from someone who doesn't suffer as badly as he used to do, like i'm pontificating from the comfort of my armchair, backseat driving; but i think it's important we keep chipping away at this issue and keep grafting.

    If you'd like any bit of The Work explained in more detail just ask, it looked a bit weird to me too at first. I can also put any bits you disagree with up against The Four Questions just in the interests of walking it through, but The Work only works when it's done on paper by yourself. The book is available on fleabay for a tenner, and is much better at explaining itself than i am.
    Can't climb for toffee...

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leaf View Post
    This is my starting point - my 'depression' or whatever it is, is my fault. If I could think differently I'd probably cope much better. But despite many attempts from different angles I haven't managed it yet. Besides which, it's not just the way I think, or what I think about - it's that overwhelming sense of failure, futility and deep weariness with life. It goes beyond mere 'thinking'.
    I've been dealing with that weariness since i was 26 and i'm 38 very soon. It doesn't take a massive forceful application of pressure to overcome the thought patterns, but a continuous application of powerful principles.

    Where do you think that overwhelming sense of failure, futility and weariness comes from? For me at least it turned out to be coming from my own thinking. It never goes beyond mere thinking. Your mind will create these vast stories which seem indestructable and insurmountable, but in me they all stemmed from 2 self-defeating underlying beliefs. This is the power of Critical Point Analysis, in every system whether it be a massive diesel locomotive or a thought system there is always an escape mechanism where the slightest application of pressure will grind the whole thing to a halt.

    Begin reflecting on the first line of your post there, the idea that your depression is your fault, that you caused it somehow. What is your proof of this? I'm not launching an attack here, the best way to let go of this particular thought is with The Work. I'm also not telling you to let go of the idea that it's your fault- you don't let go of thoughts by ordering them around, they let go of you when you are ready. What is your proof that you are to blame for your depression?
    Can't climb for toffee...

  6. #446
    Super Moderator Derby Tup's Avatar
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    What do you do if you believe that your depression isn't your fault? If you believe it's like having a cold say or a broken leg? I've never felt right for as long as I can remember, well over 40 years. I didn't know what it was for decades, but I've never believed it was my fault (I'm not criticising you or or your thought process btw Luke. It's a genuine question)
    Poacher turned game-keeper

  7. #447
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    Sorry Luke, I wasn't having a go at you but I'm along DT path.
    A quote,

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall."

  8. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leaf View Post
    It causes physical symptoms in me. Not surprising really, since the mind and body are very much linked. Lack of energy, loss of appetite - or overeating, inability to sleep at night or stay awake during the day, and sometimes a tangible pain where I imagine my stomach to be - or perhaps slightly lower.

    How about you Wharfy? How does it affect you?
    It affects me in many different ways.

    To be honest, I'm sitting typing these words and feel dreadful.

    'A fear of life' is how I can best describe my current state.

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derby Tup View Post
    What do you do if you believe that your depression isn't your fault? If you believe it's like having a cold say or a broken leg? I've never felt right for as long as I can remember, well over 40 years. I didn't know what it was for decades, but I've never believed it was my fault (I'm not criticising you or or your thought process btw Luke. It's a genuine question)
    Firstly, and most importantly, you aren't fighting it. You are accepting it as part of you. To decide it is your fault is to impose causality on an effect from an arbitrary viewpoint. One of the founding principles of The Work is to never argue with reality; the reality is- i feel depressed, it hurts to argue with this fact. It will stop your recovery in its tracks, your recovery will only move at the speed of your own understanding, it once took me 6 months of constant work to understand something very simple; once i'd understood it the thought let go of me and has never returned.

    "Man is stuck with his lack of knowledge about himself until he can learn to look beyond apparent causes. For the human record, we can note that answers never arise from identifying 'causes' in the world. Instead, it's necessary to identify the conditions that underlie ostensible causes; and these only exist within man's consciousness itself"

    In laymen's terms, stress is not in the world, it's in your mind.

    "No definitive answer to any problem can be found by isolating sequences of events and projecting upon them a mental notion of 'causality'. There are no causes within the observable world, as we shall see, the observable world is one of effects".

    In laymen's terms, don't argue with reality.

    "Man's dilemma-now and always-has been that he misidentifies his own intellectual artefacts as reality. But these artificial suppositions are merely the products of an arbitrary point of perception. The inadequecy of the answers we recieve is a direct consequence of the limitations implicit in the viewpoints of the questioner".

    In laymen's terms, you can't move on past what you don't understand, and once again- stress is in your mind!

    Quotes are from 'Power Vs. Force' David R Hawkins

    So secondly, what do you do? You congratulate yourself for accepting your depression as part of you and not a separate entity to be feared, attacked or rejected. I was talking to one of the advanced level Psych-K facilitators before my chinese acupuncture appointment earlier, a lady of exceptional insight who has little formal therapy qualifications. Just like Byron Katie, she says that depression is an alarm clock. It shuts your body down like a computer going into hibernate, it drags you into a cave until eventually you start to listen and begin a process of learning, understanding and correction. As you progress you become stronger and wiser, you now instinctively move away from the hurt because you understand and recognise it, just like how nobody has to think about removing their hand from a flame- you just do it.

    I'm assured that if you are depressed it's your body's way of telling you that something you are doing is wrong, either that or you are not doing something that you should be doing. With me it was a combination of mental attatchment to untrue underlying beliefs and lack of love for myself. I didn't love myself enough to provide for my very soul what it required, and i believed things that hurt myself deeply. Once again we circle back to the understanding that stress/depression is in here and not out there.
    Can't climb for toffee...

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    Sorry Luke, I wasn't having a go at you but I'm along DT path.
    I know pal, it's ok, i just wanted to publicly accept the fact that it is quite easy for me to say the things i do. Problems are only easy to solve once you know the solutions.
    Can't climb for toffee...

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