What Are Junk Miles

[dominion]

I forgot which of the legendary coaches said it but.... "the problem with most runners is that their slow runs are too fast and their fast runs too slow".... sums up junk miles really.

Back in the dim and distant past I've had opportunities to train with some seriously quick runners - predominantly road and track. The statement Nik makes above is very true of a lot of the UK athletes I've trained with, but is not true of the foreign athletes - they all, without question, do very slow mileage and very fast speed work. One Russian Olympic champion refused to do long runs with us because we ran too fast, yet kicked our arses in sessions.

Two of the foreign athletes in question have run 2.06 for a marathon, yet in the past decade only two Brits have broken 2.10. Which ones have the training methods right?

[nikalas]

Oh I agree in terms of energy, but not in terms of movement. Anyone who shuffles hours on end would naturally be more economical in terms of energy than a 4minute miler, because the pace is slow and when you're constantly draining the energy from your body it will rebel. The only way it can do that is to force the athlete to a speed equal to a shuffle.

You're bouncing all over the place here CL... I never mentioned movement when talking about economy, it was you who made that leap, I was referring to utilisation of fuel types. This is easily measured by gas analysis on a sub-maximal treadmill test and shows the point, relative to exertion, where the athlete is no longer able to use fat as a fuel and carbohydrate metabolism takes over completely. Take an ultra-runner and, because of the disciplined long slow distance work they've done, they will be able to maintain a degree of fat metabolism at a much higher level. This has obvious implications for distance running as you can only assimilate a relatively small amount of carbohydrate on the go so, unless you can tap those fat reserves, you'll come to a grinding halt. Distance runners develop their ability to utilise fat with long steady base work. It's essential to their performance so isn't junk.

[nikalas]

I'll answer you and Nikalas in one swoop. I find it shocking that a sports scientist with a degree can't even spell a word relevant to their speciality. And if they haven't taken the time to learn the correct spelling of a common scientific word then they're hardly likely to understand the implications of anything else I say.

We all make typos, some people genuinely struggle with spelling and this is only a forum debate, not a dissertation. Don't forget CL, you misspelt my name incessantly despite my corrections. This answer really reeks of sour grapes and/or not having the knowledge to back up your statement.

[nikalas]

I hoping this one might take me to Master status... much more fun than the Master Maker

[CL]

You're bouncing all over the place here CL... I never mentioned movement when talking about economy, it was you who made that leap, I was referring to utilisation of fuel types. This is easily measured by gas analysis on a sub-maximal treadmill test and shows the point, relative to exertion, where the athlete is no longer able to use fat as a fuel and carbohydrate metabolism takes over completely. Take an ultra-runner and, because of the disciplined long slow distance work they've done, they will be able to maintain a degree of fat metabolism at a much higher level. This has obvious implications for distance running as you can only assimilate a relatively small amount of carbohydrate on the go so, unless you can tap those fat reserves, you'll come to a grinding halt. Distance runners develop their ability to utilise fat with long steady base work. It's essential to their performance so isn't junk.

Nice segue, but totally false.

[nikalas]

Nice segue, but totally false.

Facts? Evidence?.... always more illuminating than sweeping sentences.

[nikalas]

See post 24... it was you who brought up movement, I've always been talking about fuel utilisation.

[mr brightside]

I hoping this one might take me to Master status... much more fun than the Master Maker

I'd love to be at a level where i was forced to identify junk miles and eliminate them.

[CL]

See post 24... it was you who brought up movement, I've always been talking about fuel utilisation.

Nice try but the best bit about post 24 is the word 'and' right in the middle.

[CL]

Don't know what Tim W is going to make of all this when he decides to resurface. Probably still trying to work out the old running vs cycling conundrum.