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Thread: Border Collie Pup

  1. #91
    Master mr brightside's Avatar
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    Re: Border Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by christopher leigh View Post
    The way I see it, commodity alias Longdogs is pointing the finger and she's got three fingers pointing back. Some time ago she was telling us that she increasingly believed that animals were being just treated as commodities(hence the new nickname I've coined for her). When I pointed out that she was a Vet and Vets made money out of animals, she went ahead and blamed her lack of integrity on having to make a living!

    Other things come to mind as well. When she didn't want one of her own dogs(which appear to me to be a particular breed) she found it a new home. Nothing wrong with that from my point of view, but there would be if I was complaining of animals being used as 'commodities.'

    In fact if you look at the situation properly, she found herself in the same position as many of the people she's complaining about. Of not wanting her dog anymore and palming it off to some very nice new owners. In other words treating it like a commodity. And if the new owners hadn't of wanted HER dog, but wanted a breed puppy instead, they would be very wrong and evil.
    Doesn't that make anyone connected to animals in their line of work lacking in integrity, including farmers? Why don't you bury the hatchet with Longdogs and move on?
    Luke Appleyard (Wharfedale)- quick on the dissent

  2. #92
    Senior Member Longdogs's Avatar
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    Re: Border Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Stolly View Post
    Longdogs I appreciate that you work in the front line of all this and are also a massive dog lover and very emotionally attached to the plight to dogs in rescue pounds but don't you think that its emotional blackmail to say that anybody who wants a dog must take on a rescued dog rather than buy a puppy of their choice?

    I have a client who is a vet by the way who, despite all of the trauma and troubles of the job, seems to get by okay, drawing earnings in excess of £150,000 a year! Not typical I'm sure but, as an owner of two cats and now one dog and various pets before these, many pet owners might also criticise vet fees and, you never know, the cost of vet treatments themselves I'm sure lead some (horrible) pet owners to discard or in your example have put down unwanted pets. I'm not really having a pop at vets here (our local vets are brilliant) but in a round about way what I'm trying to say is that all sorts of things lead to there being too many unwanted cats and dogs in rescue centres and its certainly not all because breeders sell puppies.
    It's only blackmail if you can harm someone when they don't do what you want.

    Your client has an exceptional salary. Most vets won't earn a quarter of that. I never said the problem was all caused by breeders, that's just how the thread started.

    Vets fees- it would be an interesting proposition to present each bill with a copy of the equivalent cost to the NHS for equatable human treatment. When the man comes to service the x-ray machine, it doesn't cost less because its used on animals. Neither do the other overheads, wages, pharmaceuticals etc. Does a surveyor charge less because he likes houses? Or a dentist because she likes teeth? We already earn way less than equivalently qualified professionals. I'm not complaining about that, but vets fees are cheap! A pet is a luxury item, not an essential. There is insurance for those who need it. I'm sure fees contribute to abandoned animals- but should we encourage irresponsible ownership by giving our services for free? In genuine cases we often do.. but on the whole how would it make it better?

  3. #93
    Great Uncle Bulgaria
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    Re: Border Collie Pup

    It's not often I write on here but this thread has held my interest as it clearly has a lot of others.
    In terms of medical support I truly wish that all human doctors/nurses were as concerned for their patients as all the vets and vet techs have been towards my pets (yes they are pets not working animals). Christmas Eve last year staples were needed in a wound in one of our cats; an hour later having walked through the snow the on call vet inserted staples. This is typical of the service my pets have received across the country and I am grateful. I have BUPA cover through work but it does not come close to the service provided to my animals. Don't be ill in this county at the weekend as a human, you are on your own.
    So, vets are good people doing great work and, whilst I don't always pay my bill with a smile on my face, its paid on time and willingly. Oh, and the waiting rooms are always clean and smell of disinfectant, not something you can always say for the NHS.

    Thats me for another year.

  4. #94
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    Re: Border Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by mr brightside View Post
    Doesn't that make anyone connected to animals in their line of work lacking in integrity, including farmers? Why don't you bury the hatchet with Longdogs and move on?
    No not really, because farmers in general don't moan about animals being commodities. My point which you don't seem to understand, is if you object to animals being treated as commodities then you don't, erm treat animals as commodities.

    It's a bit like me being vegetarian on the grounds of not liking the way animals are killed, whilst employed as a slaughterhouse Man.

    One last point: there is no hatchet with 'commodity'(Longdogs). She's said her piece and others including me have said theirs.

  5. #95
    Master Stolly's Avatar
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    Re: Border Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Longdogs View Post
    A pet is a luxury item, not an essential. There is insurance for those who need it. I'm sure fees contribute to abandoned animals- but should we encourage irresponsible ownership by giving our services for free? In genuine cases we often do.. but on the whole how would it make it better?
    LD I'm not at all inferring that vet fees aren't good value; that has nothing to do with it at all. What I was saying is that vet fees, with certain people, can contribute to the number of dogs that are discarded and passed on the rescue pounds . Equally little old grannies dying and leaving their dogs homeless do, people who buy a dog 'for Christmas' and can't then cope do, dogs that run away with no identity tags or chip do and, I'm sure, loads and loads of other reasons all mean that dogs unfortunately end up in the pound.

    People who sell purposely bred puppies on the other hand don't directly contribute to any dogs going into pounds - they just reduce the rate of take up of rescue dogs because some people choose to prefer to buy a bred puppy. I don't think they necessarily deserve you to dump on them or dump on people who choose to buy dogs from them just because of their indirect influence on the population of dog pounds. Its like you're blaming the least guily first.

  6. #96
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    Re: Border Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Uncle Bulgaria View Post
    It's not often I write on here but this thread has held my interest as it clearly has a lot of others.
    In terms of medical support I truly wish that all human doctors/nurses were as concerned for their patients as all the vets and vet techs have been towards my pets (yes they are pets not working animals). Christmas Eve last year staples were needed in a wound in one of our cats; an hour later having walked through the snow the on call vet inserted staples. This is typical of the service my pets have received across the country and I am grateful. I have BUPA cover through work but it does not come close to the service provided to my animals. Don't be ill in this county at the weekend as a human, you are on your own.
    So, vets are good people doing great work and, whilst I don't always pay my bill with a smile on my face, its paid on time and willingly. Oh, and the waiting rooms are always clean and smell of disinfectant, not something you can always say for the NHS.

    Thats me for another year.
    Agree totally Uncle. When ever I've proposed getting rid of the NHS, the idea has always been met with hysteria. People can't imagine a private health system that doesn't operate on the principle of extortion. Yet if they only looked at veterinary medicine and drew the correct conclusions, they'd see if not realise, what was possible.

    Vets are not like the doctors and consultants in the NHS. They(Vets) have to compete on the free market for their customers, and if they don't do a good job they lose those same people. In the NHS if you book to see a consultant, you'll probably be fobbed off with a junior doctor, whilst the consultant sits in his office writing for the Lancet. No competiton, no incentive to please customers.

    Yes I like vets. I even get one to come and check on Mr Benn every so often. That's a sight to behold.
    Last edited by CL; 19-08-2010 at 04:31 PM.

  7. #97
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    Re: Border Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Stolly View Post
    LD I'm not at all inferring that vet fees aren't good value; that has nothing to do with it at all. What I was saying is that vet fees, with certain people, can contribute to the number of dogs that are discarded and passed on the rescue pounds . Equally little old grannies dying and leaving their dogs homeless do, people who buy a dog 'for Christmas' and can't then cope do, dogs that run away with no identity tags or chip do and, I'm sure, loads and loads of other reasons all mean that dogs unfortunately end up in the pound.

    People who sell purposely bred puppies on the other hand don't directly contribute to any dogs going into pounds - they just reduce the rate of take up of rescue dogs because some people choose to prefer to buy a bred puppy. I don't think they necessarily deserve you to dump on them or dump on people who choose to buy dogs from them just because of their indirect influence on the population of dog pounds. Its like you're blaming the least guily first.
    You're right Stoll, although I'd go as far as to say she's blaming those who bare no guilt. It's a moral inversion of the worst kind. If you go to your example of children, then she'd be blaming the couple who want their own children for the fate of children orphaned.

    It's called the 'commodity' principle: Condemn the innocent and sanctify the feckless.

  8. #98
    Master Alexandra's Avatar
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Longdogs View Post
    Only four times now eh! It was 7 last time i looked.. brilliant, we're all fine then How did they get these citings? From beyond the grave? Seriously, what i've read is (a) personality type, (b) conditions as you mentioned above, and (c) easy access to means. All these apply to medics and dentists too, also high rates. I think we outperform them on suicide though because of constantly having to make decisions on 'quality of life' of sentient beings and the apparent disposability of our patients. But that's purely a personal viewpoint.
    Yes, imagine a scenario where an extremely intelligent high achieving child develops great interest in and empathy with animals, undertakes an ultra long, hard and expensive training in order to fulfil their ideal of helping animals, and then when their dream seems at last to be coming true finds that somehow it has changed into a nightmare - they are working in an abattoir. No other health professionals are required both to care for ill patients and kill healthy ones.
    Begin afresh, afresh, afresh.

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