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Thread: Border Collie Pup

  1. #11
    Master and MR
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by BionicBetty View Post
    Actually that isn't true for everyone. My old bitch may not be from a registered line but I can trace her family back generations. I had 3 litters out of her & bar one pup I'm still in contact with every one. She was from a good working strain but looked more a house dog when we went to view her. I bred her because she has a wonderful temperment & I chose a good working dog for her to go with. All my pups had checks & I offered to take a pups back should circumstances change. I only had to do this once & rehomed him at 7 months. With being intouch with the new owners I know her line hasn't shown any eye or hip problems I many have proven themselves as working dogs. However saying all that I do understand that there are many out there not as careful as me & there poor pups end up in rescue before their a year old. Oh & I didn't charge £300 for mine either.
    Good post, welcome to the forum betty

  2. #12
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme78 View Post
    I will try and give you a good reason why I didn't get a rescue dog. My wife and I wanted to get a dog from our local rescue centre. We were told we wouldn't be allowed one as there would be nobody at home full time with the dog, we tried to explain that the dog would be on it's own for more than four or five hours at the very most as my mum would have it in the afternoon, every day.
    I do agree however that puppy farming is a despicable way of earning money, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "Breeders" as there are a number of websites out there for people who want to buy pups and they are readily available from working and show stock.
    I would never leave my collie for 5 hours and certainly the fact you said your mum would be having the dog wouldn't go down well at the rescue centre

  3. #13
    Master Al Fowler's Avatar
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Longdogs View Post
    Those of you reading this who breed and buy puppies, spare a thought for the people who pick up the pieces of the situation you create- giving lethal injections to healthy dogs, bagging them up and incinerating them, or watching them imprisoned in cells for life because the 'animal-loving' public doesn't like rescue centres who have a destruction policy.
    Helen,
    We've had 3 dogs now, all from pups and they've been brought up properly and lived life to the full.

    Dont tar us all with the same brush.




    Speaking of dogs, Joss wont settle down when I was just planning on going to bed - Hey ho.
    Last edited by Al Fowler; 09-08-2010 at 11:25 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Longdogs's Avatar
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Both Al Fowler and Bionic Betty- you TOTALLY miss the point. If every person who you sold a pup to, or every time you bought one, got a rescue dog instead that would be x number less pointless dead dogs- it has absolutely nothing to do with how well you treat them, how much you love them, how many tests you do on them, or how good their 'stock' is. It's a numbers game. Every puppy bought, regardless of the piece of paper it comes with, is an opportunity for another dog to die. I don't doubt that your puppies live life to the full and are well looked after- just that another dog somewhere dies for them to be able to do it. You cannot justify it on those grounds. And by the way a breeder is someone who makes puppies- makes no odds if you are a puppy farmer, a hobby breeder or a one-off. The money you receive is part of the market forces which are the problem. You're part of a problem which I have to clean up on a daily basis. I make no apologies for judging you- i've been at the coalface for a long time on this one. And i'm sick of it!

  5. #15
    Master Al Fowler's Avatar
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Longdogs View Post
    Both Al Fowler and Bionic Betty- you TOTALLY miss the point. If every person who you sold a pup to, or every time you bought one, got a rescue dog instead that would be x number less pointless dead dogs- it has absolutely nothing to do with how well you treat them, how much you love them, how many tests you do on them, or how good their 'stock' is. It's a numbers game. Every puppy bought, regardless of the piece of paper it comes with, is an opportunity for another dog to die. I don't doubt that your puppies live life to the full and are well looked after- just that another dog somewhere dies for them to be able to do it. You cannot justify it on those grounds. And by the way a breeder is someone who makes puppies- makes no odds if you are a puppy farmer, a hobby breeder or a one-off. The money you receive is part of the market forces which are the problem. You're part of a problem which I have to clean up on a daily basis. I make no apologies for judging you- i've been at the coalface for a long time on this one. And i'm sick of it!

    I understand what your saying, and your dedication is top notch with what your up again.

    Maybe I do feel some guilt for buying puppy, I did considered getting a rescue pointer but I went against it.

    With the job im going into I dont know if i'll be able to have a dog again because I'd be away from home all day and obviously thats not fair on the dog. Im lucky now that my mum can be flexible so you can look after him during the day and take him and henry out lab with her most days.

    Ive read your website a few times now, about all your dogs and their stories - Pedwar (I think it was him) legged me up and completely wrapped his lead around me at sedburgh 3 peaks outside the hut.


    I'll be honest, one thing that did put my off getting a rescue dog was how the internet tags them as potentially having massive social issues and maybe I was scared that I wouldnt of been able to control the dog and made its life more of a mess.
    Obviously thats just a steriotypical view but it worried me so nodoubt it worries others. Thats not to say exactly the same thing could happen to Joss - He keeps trying to push his luck and get all cocky, but I suppose thats what puppies do.
    Last edited by Al Fowler; 10-08-2010 at 12:21 AM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Longdogs's Avatar
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Thanks Al it's decent of you to be so magnanimous after me ranting at you ! I've had a long day trying to sort something out for the latest casualty.. You make a good point that rescue dogs do sometimes get labelled as problem dogs, and it worries people. Its one of those things that becomes ingrained... everyone says it so it must be true... like the earth was once flat. A dog is a dog is a dog .. if people better understood dogs we would get somewhere. When i win the lottery i am going to set up an educational dog re-homing centre where frazzled parents can send their kids to summer school and learn about dogs. Til then... carry on i suppose

  7. #17
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by daz h View Post
    I would never leave my collie for 5 hours and certainly the fact you said your mum would be having the dog wouldn't go down well at the rescue centre
    Daz I would never have a collie, they require more care than I could ever hope to give them. I was not referring to a collie rescue centre, rather a local rescue centre. The rescue centre is very picky about where dogs go, in fact probably too picky.
    I know of dogs that are routinely left at home all day, I also know of dogs that go to someone elses house for the full day. At the moment mine is left between 8 and 12 and the 1 and four, he seems fine with that. When my mum and dad are back from holiday he'll be with someone for the afternoon at the very least. When he's on his own he enjoys the peace and quiet, when we go on holiday he's knackered by the end of the week and looking forward to us going back to work so he can get some peace! When I'm off sick he just stays on his bed all the time.

    Apologies if this seems overly agressive but I'm left feeling a bit defensive from what you wrote.
    I do think it depends on your dog, I have a particularly lazy labrador, who only retrieves in water, likes to sleep, and spends most of his time a hundred yards behind me because he's found another interesting smell. At least he's stopped peeing on every gate post we go past now!
    Last edited by Graeme78; 10-08-2010 at 08:36 AM.

  8. #18
    Senior Member simgreen78's Avatar
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by Longdogs View Post
    Thanks Al it's decent of you to be so magnanimous after me ranting at you ! I've had a long day trying to sort something out for the latest casualty.. You make a good point that rescue dogs do sometimes get labelled as problem dogs, and it worries people. Its one of those things that becomes ingrained... everyone says it so it must be true... like the earth was once flat. A dog is a dog is a dog .. if people better understood dogs we would get somewhere. When i win the lottery i am going to set up an educational dog re-homing centre where frazzled parents can send their kids to summer school and learn about dogs. Til then... carry on i suppose
    A brilliant point. The basic lack of understanding drives me insane. I have thought for a long time that we need people-oriented dog education courses - Longdogs I know about fifty people just in my local park that would benefit from something like that!

    We are in the middle of a family feud at the moment, where my other half's sister, a vet, has been looking for a dog and refusing to consider a rescue dog despite our pleadings . She only wants a pedigree. Apparently we are officially not speaking to her now.

    However, Al - you shouldn't necessarily feel guilty. Just because the general concensus on here is that a rescue dog is preferable, you made your decision based on what would be in the interests of your prospective dog, ie, you were worried that you wouldn't be able to give it the control it required to give it the home it needed. Whilst I would always advocate taking on a rescue dog or none at all, and I think you would have found a suitable rescue dog evantually, I can understand your rationale. Unfortunately you are right, the media does sometimes convey a bit of a stereotype of rescue dogs as all having problems or issues and needing intensive 'extra' work or special handling. Whilst there are obviously cases like that (usually borne out of people's poor behaviour in the past), the reality is very different. Rescue dogs require patience, understanding and love. For many, that is the point of having one.

    I've now had Ozzy for two years. He's my constant companion. He was dumped by a farmer because he was rubbish at ratting (he's a Parsons Jack Russel) and was about to be destroyed in the pound. He is from a 'working' background. He is the most gentle, affectionate, loyal and rewarding friend you could wish for. He even comes to work with me every day - he's sitting under my desk as I write this. He's a rubbish fell runner though - he's only got little legs... comes out on my recovery runs Here he is...
    Last edited by simgreen78; 10-08-2010 at 09:53 AM.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by philt1 View Post
    Think you should all get off your high horses. dont tar everyone with the same brush...we are not breeders nor do we contribute to the deaths of thousands of dogs..

    All our pups come from show dogs, just because they are not registered does not mean that they are not worthy.

    think you should all take a breath and preach else where..

    Thanks

    I think of you decide to breed or sell for whatever reason you should expect this. I think it may be more about you advertising to a different audience. If you are deliberatly breeding you are creating more dogs and as longdogs says that means other without homes or who are older will find it hard to get placed.

    Unless people have a genuine reason for needing a breed such as for working I cannot see the need for most of us to buy newborns of specific breeds. There are enough out there already especially those who have been adandoned as they are being seen as past useful at ages like 5 and 6! Not everyone seems to realise dogs age and you are as responsible for their health and welfare and sometimes dogs can be less active or infirm incurring extra support and cost for a long as their most active peak.


    The catch 22 in all this is there now a puppy that needs homing, if its sold it encourages more breeding if it is not, what happens then - will you give it away to someone who will use it for the purpose it is bred for?

    Re the point about problems with rescue dogs, some dogs do have problems but you need to think it is as often because of the enviroment they were reared in rather than a issue with the dog itself. We have just had to reluctantly back out from having such a dog because it could be a risk to the family and other dogs, however it if had been brought up properly to begin with ......
    Last edited by Antisocial; 10-08-2010 at 10:12 AM.
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  10. #20
    Master sbrt's Avatar
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    Re: Borber Collie Pup

    Quote Originally Posted by simgreen78 View Post
    A brilliant point. The basic lack of understanding drives me insane. I have thought for a long time that we need people-oriented dog education courses - Longdogs I know about fifty people just in my local park that would benefit from something like that!

    We are in the middle of a family feud at the moment, where my other half's sister, a vet, has been looking for a dog and refusing to consider a rescue dog despite our pleadings . She only wants a pedigree. Apparently we are officially not speaking to her now.

    However, Al - you shouldn't necessarily feel guilty. Just because the general concensus on here is that a rescue dog is preferable, you made your decision based on what would be in the interests of your prospective dog, ie, you were worried that you wouldn't be able to give it the control it required to give it the home it needed. Whilst I would always advocate taking on a rescue dog or none at all, and I think you would have found a suitable rescue dog evantually, I can understand your rationale. Unfortunately you are right, the media does sometimes convey a bit of a stereotype of rescue dogs as all having problems or issues and needing intensive 'extra' work or special handling. Whilst there are obviously cases like that (usually borne out of people's poor behaviour in the past), the reality is very different. Rescue dogs require patience, understanding and love. For many, that is the point of having one.

    I've now had Ozzy for two years. He's my constant companion. He was dumped by a farmer because he was rubbish at ratting (he's a Parsons Jack Russel) and was about to be destroyed in the pound. He is from a 'working' background. He is the most gentle, affectionate, loyal and rewarding friend you could wish for. He even comes to work with me every day - he's sitting under my desk as I write this. He's a rubbish fell runner though - he's only got little legs... comes out on my recovery runs Here he is...
    Nice story Simegreen.

    I would only ever have a recycled hound. They may not always be the easiest option but our current dog is a joy to have.
    Last edited by sbrt; 10-08-2010 at 11:03 AM. Reason: spelling

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