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Thread: Navigation for fell running ?

  1. #11
    Master Rob Furness's Avatar
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Whilst I'm capable of using a map properly, a lot of the time I rely on instinct. This is usually pretty accurate but has been known to go fairly wrong at times. My nav method when running is - 1] when following rights of way I stop often and make sure I'm on the right route (more because I don't want to trespass than anything else) - 2] when on open access land I strike an almost direct line to where I'm heading unless there's an obvious problem with that (such as a cliff) and adapt my route depending on terrain as I go. I rely usually on line of sight or a very rough compass bearing in the general direction I want to go and nothing more than that. I'm confident that in poor situations I could navigate much more accurately but I so far haven't really needed to. I'm getting a lot better at it but the best way to learn is simply to plot a rough route over serious terrain and get out there and do it. If it's an area you're not overly familiar with then all the better.
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  2. #12
    Grandmaster IanDarkpeak's Avatar
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyA View Post
    Also it's acceptable to rotate the map, even if you're not a girl
    It's not acceptable, it's Cardinal! Set the map to the north and move round the map, better still be "in" the map and visualize.

  3. #13
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Quote Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak View Post
    It's not acceptable, it's Cardinal! Set the map to the north and move round the map, better still be "in" the map and visualize.
    Agreed, for walking and for high mountain nav where you're mainly using distant features and/or bearings but for orienteering it's best to rotate the map as you're usually following track/path junctions and vegetation/enclosure boundaries and you need to make rapid decisions.

    Each to their own though.
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  4. #14
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    I always always have the map orientated. It's the way I was taught in the Army and on my ML training. Can't see why you would have it any other way for fell running.

  5. #15
    Master sbrt's Avatar
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Quote Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak View Post
    It's not acceptable, it's Cardinal! Set the map to the north and move round the map, better still be "in" the map and visualize.
    Thats what I have been doing wrong. Holding the map in me hand.

    I should have been putting the map on the floor and standing in it. Thanks IanDP

  6. #16
    Master sbrt's Avatar
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Mountain navigation for runners is worth a look http://www.lakesrunner.com/welcome-t...6_315_314.html

  7. #17
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Quote Originally Posted by IainR View Post
    more of a focus on relocation when running, you normally only look at a map when lost or unsure.. more gambling in general. When walking you have time to be precice, in a race you have 1 point of reference, can't see anything else, just go with it, and see. When walking you'd maybe spend more time getting it right. Well I tend to gamble a lot racing...
    In my opinion this is poor advice.
    Run and hope is not navigation
    relocation is the act of finding yourself once you have got lost, which is a failure of navigation.

    If there is a need to navigate then you need to maintain contact with where you are and to know where next, the more consistently you do this the quicker you will move overall.
    you need to think ahead and plan ahead and you need to be able to do this as you run along at your race pace.
    maintaining map orientation and thumb on your position are valuable techniques that you would not typically use when walking.
    If navigating when running there is a need to maintain a constant flow of navigational awareness and information if you are to progress at optimum speed.

  8. #18
    Member Steph's Avatar
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Quote Originally Posted by andy k View Post
    you need to think ahead and plan ahead
    I like to spend a few minutes plotting the route & making a list of bearings the night before.

  9. #19
    Master IainR's Avatar
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Quote Originally Posted by andy k View Post
    In my opinion this is poor advice.
    Run and hope is not navigation
    relocation is the act of finding yourself once you have got lost, which is a failure of navigation.

    If there is a need to navigate then you need to maintain contact with where you are and to know where next, the more consistently you do this the quicker you will move overall.
    you need to think ahead and plan ahead and you need to be able to do this as you run along at your race pace.
    maintaining map orientation and thumb on your position are valuable techniques that you would not typically use when walking.
    If navigating when running there is a need to maintain a constant flow of navigational awareness and information if you are to progress at optimum speed.
    Its called racing.... of course you don't know where you are all the time in a race in bad conditions. You gamble, you make calls, educated guesses. Well I do. In awful conditions and not knowing the terrain that technique took me to third at the road in Jura Fell race (Alasdair Anthony got me on the road). Also won the Peris in very poor vis..

    You plan ahead, you visualise you see if things fit, if they don't see what else you can see, sometimes just hold your nerve, trust your judgement.

    Of course getting lost isn't failed navigation, not finding out where you are again is failed nav, what a rediculous notion that one can't make errors. That's how it is on your ML assessment too (by the way)..how many teams say they navigate succesfully around the HPM? How many of them do it without going wrong at alll...our team makes the odd mistake and our navigator probably knows Bleaklow better than any man alive..

    Too many runners are too scared of getting lost and pushing the boundaries of their nav so don't progress.

    Note I also said unsure too... so you get on a ridge descend down until the memory becomes patchy, you've past most of your ticks, you look at the map and see what's around you to make sure the next call is the right one...

    Racing is about racing, positions and times. It's not for safe slow runs. That's what I do the other 300 days of the year.

  10. #20
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    Re: Navigation for fell runnin

    Quote Originally Posted by The Hat View Post
    I always always have the map orientated. It's the way I was taught in the Army and on my ML training. Can't see why you would have it any other way for fell running.
    Because if you're in a situation where the terrain is dense on features (paths, boundaries, streams, contour variations etc) it takes extra time to mentally rotate the map, time you need to be watching your feet. It's less of a problem in open featureless moorland (e.g Kinder) but get somewhere full of walls and paths and you can soon be in a mess. In these situations a compass is rarely used (you'd spend most of your time setting bearings instead of looking where you're going) so orienting the map to north is a pointless exercise.

    Don't hold the Army/ML up as an example, they're training for a significantly different situation, one where pinpoint accuracy, possibly in bad weather is much more important than speed. High speed navigation when running is often more akin to 'stepping stones' as you use all the features available to 'jump' your way across the map.

    Don't dismiss it; try it next time you doing an orienteering/MM event, see if it works.
    .

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