Alternative to 3p's

[Stolly]

Sorry I don't want to waylay the thread but it irritates the heck out of me when people diss the 3 peaks as not being a 'proper' fell race. Yes I know it follows a road and has a couple of small tarmac sections but that's mainly because it has to, to keep landowners happy and accommodate such a large field of runners. And of course it has to keep up its history as a fast race, broadly following a traditional route. The 3 peaks could easily be de-roaded, if landowners agreed, but it then wouldn't be the same race would it? And if you count the contours, the 3 peaks is circa 5,300 to 5,400 high, hardly small in the scheme of things (a mile give or take) and with all of the climb condensed into the first 18 miles. Teenager with Altitude sounds brilliant by the way but it doesn't have 10,800 feet of climb (as inferred by WD) in 16 miles.... does it?

This whole proper fell race thing is complete bollocks. Auld Lang Syne, a brilliant, brilliant fell race, could just as easily be labelled a trail race if we were being picky. And Loads of great races have far less climb than that and loads have more, some have road, some have none, some follow tracks, others are bogathons and other less so. I love the Fairfield Horseshoe for example but surely that could be criticised for (largely) following an impossible to miss track on two impossible to miss ridgelines?

Anyway I too have done the Malhamdale Meander and run the route from time to time on my tod and I'd heartily recommend that as a lovely 3P substitute, even though it includes... oooh a hundred yards of road down from Calton to the river Aire

[Johnny Foreigner]

Not merely a substitute, a much better race. Was going to say a "proper fell race", which it is and the 3Ps isn't but I don't want to start the "what is a proper fell race navel gazing".

Congratulations. Definitely in the running for most stupid post of the year. Keep it up.

[Fellhound]

This whole proper fell race thing is complete bollocks.

No it isn't... Margaret, the fixtures secretary has to make a judgement based on the subjective "proper fell race" criteria every time a race organiser tries to get a trail race into the FRA calender and some have been rejected, with the blessing of the committee.

It's always going to be subjective but I think most would agree that, tough classic run though the 3 Peaks is, it is not a fell race like the Teenager, or Wasdale, or Coledale, or.....

[Graham Breeze]

Congratulations. Definitely in the running for most stupid post of the year. Keep it up.

Indeed.

How could Ian possibly suggest that a race which is mostly tarmac, farm tractor tracks, duckboards, stone steps, hardcore trail,...oh and a small section of sheeptrod up to Whernside, and that until a couple of years ago did not even require runners to carry a map (which was fortunate for the hundreds of road runners who enter), possibly not be the purest fell race in the calendar.

GB (10 starts, 10 finishes including sub 4 hours)

[Graham Breeze]

No it isn't... Margaret, the fixtures secretary has to make a judgement based on the subjective "proper fell race" criteria every time a race organiser tries to get a trail race into the FRA calender and some have been rejected, with the blessing of the committee.

It's always going to be subjective but I think most would agree that, tough classic run though the 3 Peaks is, it is not a fell race like the Teenager, or Wasdale, or Coledale, or.....

Andy is right. Margaret does reject applications.

The Committee has to balance including only "pure" fell races in the Calendar and what best meets the wishes of FRA members.

We are also reluctant to exclude races that have been included in the past but if we were starting again dozens of races would be ruled out.

You may propose your own list.

[Rob Furness]

Thanks for turning my thread into an argument folks! (your fault Ian)

For the record, it is a fell race and always has been, the surface may be quite tame by fell standards but is still far tougher and rougher than your average trail race and includes three of the highest peaks in Yorkshire, some tricky (ish) descending and (crucially) a large amount of fell runners running it. If you were to discount races that were mostly traily type paths the calendar would be lightened a great deal I suspect, it's simply a result of these paths being used by more and more people so that they need "managing" and end up with a hardcore path being laid. Nothing any of us can do about it. And you don't have to do the race if you don't like it folks, I like it though and will continue to do it even if it gets de-classified as a fell race. (rant over)

Anyway, back on track..... I have looked at Teenager with altitude and also Anni waltz, my concern is that I don't have that much chance to recce stuff in the lakes so don't really know the area that well. I'm quite comfortable navigating on the hoof, but for my first foray into a proper lakes race I would like something that I'm not going to struggle with nav and can just enjoy, I'm not concerned about the course being tough or whatever, just either enough numbers in to follow a bit (cue the abuse) or straightforward enough that I can nav from an A4 size map folded up in my hand if I need to. I'm considering Borrowdale later in the year as well so teenager with altitude sounds a good start, open to suggestions

[Joan of Arc]

For the record, it is a fell race and always has been

But for my first foray into a proper lakes race.

?????

[Mark G]

Teenager will get you a longer run with more climbing but dont underestimate the Anniversary waltz, its quite a hard race for a medium. I did the teenager last year for the first time after doing the AW quite often. The field is smaller and that combined with the longer route (and being near the back) meant I had to nav quite a bit but I actually enjoyed this race a lot - its a much steadier start than the AW which is a bit fast for the first few miles before you start climbing Robinson. Its a difficult choice between the two really - I have always enjoyed the AW and would like to try and improve my time but the TWA is arguably better if you want to be out for longer and both races share the same route after Robinson which means you get that great descent to Catbells and then to the finish whichever you do.

[Rob Furness]

?????

?????

What you on about? Just because I haven't done any races in the lakes yet?

[Joan of Arc]

?????

What you on about? Just because I haven't done any races in the lakes yet?

As in "I have never done a proper fell race but I can tell the world that the three peaks is one".

Is that irony or something else?