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Thread: UKA fell running qualification

  1. #1
    Master IainR's Avatar
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    UKA fell running qualification

    A guiding company... I won't name them.. says all leaders of IML or EA coaches..

    OR..

    So they are not qualified by usual standards. and consider this may well mean in France.. which if i have to explain the significance of that one I give up..

    So Can UKA or English Athletics confirm whether the course they created is suitable? So we are now in a position where E/UKA quals are being used to commercially guide.. potentially in Europe..

    Are the deliverers of such courses happy with this situation?
    Do you feel EA coaches would be qualified to guide in alpine, winter or mountain situations?

    Personally I think not.. but my view is if a fatality happens the inquiry will look for experts and I think we'll end up involved as one of the few ML qualified running guides. So for true transparency. Does a UKA coaching qualifications cover commercial activity?

    No it may do.. just try and be as clear as possible..

    I think it should be clarified what is going on. If not we are shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Personally I think its better ML's speak out now than later at an inquiry.
    Last edited by IainR; 02-04-2012 at 05:45 PM. Reason: removed quote.

  2. #2
    Senior Member N-dubya's Avatar
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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    I've got my summer ML and can't understand how an accredited athletics coach could justify leading on British Uplands in UK summer conditions let alone on the continent in alpine conditions

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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    hmm interesting on all points.

    It appears that the chap guiding the runs is not ML - potential problems insurance-wise? But very experienced - Lakes 100 etc...

    It also to be a very a very well set up show; one would think they would know about liability etc and not open themselves up before to claims before opening on the web.

    Be interesting to see other thoughts.

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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    Is the ML qualification a requirmentfor AALA covered activities? So not strictly called for when working with adults, though that might be seen as good practice.

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    Master IainR's Avatar
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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    Quote Originally Posted by felltrumpet View Post
    hmm interesting on all points.

    It appears that the chap guiding the runs is not ML - potential problems insurance-wise? But very experienced - Lakes 100 etc...

    It also to be a very a very well set up show; one would think they would know about liability etc and not open themselves up before to claims before opening on the web.

    Be interesting to see other thoughts.
    You don't need an ML to guide, you can go by experience. Insurance is harder to get in away. But sometimes just say 'I'm qualified to the necessary standard as advised by the national governing body' so they could say running comes under UKA therefore as a coach they are qualified... but personally I think mountain running comes under the ML system..

    But in Europe that's different.. in France it = jail..

    In other countries its less strict than the UK...

    What is the isse is they are offering the UKA quals in a commercial venture, and the way its a guide OR a coach suggests they will be used exchangably..

    I don't think you/we should name as it does seem well set up with experienced people but UKA should now clarify their position. I said at the time these qualifications could be used commercially. I have emailed Graeme previously but did not receive a reply about this matter.

  6. #6
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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    Quote Originally Posted by IainR View Post
    A guiding company... I won't name them..

    "All our Leaders are either registered UIMLA International Mountain Leaders or England Athletics Association accredited coaches"
    His website does state: "UK Coaching Certificate Fell and Mountain Running Level 2"

    His map reading skills may need some reviewing if he thinks Lancaster is in North Yorkshire.
    Last edited by XRunner; 02-04-2012 at 04:59 PM.
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    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    If someone who is offering mountain guiding as a profession is using an UKA / EA qualification as a kite mark / approval then they are misleading at the very least.

    If they are saying "I have all this professional qualification and experience specific to mountain guiding and by the way I'm also a qualified coach" I would say that's fair, but still misleading as in my opinion there is nothing in a UKA / EA course that would prepare you to guide.

    The courses are to help the coach to train the athlete to run effectively on the fells.

    Where this has all gone wrong in my opinion is the change of coaching pathway around 4 years ago. UKA had a clear pathway, that made sense and everyone seemed to understand.
    Level 1 - assistant general coach - able to assist a level 2 or above in the delivery of a session.
    Level 2 - event specific - able to set sessions and coach a group of athletes in their specific event.
    Level 3 - as 2 but more qualified.
    Level 4 - as 3 but more qualified.
    Once at level 2, a coach could chose to move up the levels, or broaden their events by adding event modules.

    UKA / EA had a brief flirtation with a new structure a few years ago called UKCC which was a muddle - and then quickly changed, within 12 months I think, to the current system and very few people understand it, and they have very few instructors in a position to take the courses at higher levels. In fact there's nnothing that says how you progress beyoind "athletics coach" that I can see.
    http://www.englandathletics.org/page...ing+as+a+Coach
    It is explained here.

    http://www.englandathletics.org/cour...s+and+Bookings
    If you look on here they are a similar mess with the officials as well - with nothing beyond a level 2 scheduled.

    They have really made a pig's ear of the coach and officials pathway over the last few years and most existing coaches I know have given up to the course system - only new ones seem to be taking the entry level courses.
    Same for officials.

    So back to your point Iain, there is nothing (to my knowledge) available in athletics that would give you a mountain leadership qualification.

    They are different activities aren't they after all.

  8. #8
    Master Multiterrainer's Avatar
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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    I'm not au fait with the various qualifications but (to be pedantic for a moment if I may) looking at the relevant company's website (it's easily found if you google the quote in Iain's initial comments) the EA coaching qualification is only mentioned in relation to their 'Trail Running' offer as opposed to 'mountain guiding', whether this makes any difference to insurance etc I'll leave the experts to discuss!

  9. #9
    Master IainR's Avatar
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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    removed the quote..

    Re trail running.. not really. Award wise the WGL may come in there but its a shit qualification for trail running as its so confined in its remit.

    You don't need a qualification to guide, I just think EA/UKA should come out and say whether these subsidised courses can be used commercially. Or if they are not intended as such.

    There's no vested interest by the way. As Sarah and I are getting divorced, my role in the business has effectively ended.

  10. #10
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Re: UKA fell running qualifica

    Quote Originally Posted by IainR View Post
    removed the quote..

    Re trail running.. not really. Award wise the WGL may come in there but its a shit qualification for trail running as its so confined in its remit.

    You don't need a qualification to guide, I just think EA/UKA should come out and say whether these subsidised courses can be used commercially. Or if they are not intended as such.

    There's no vested interest by the way. As Sarah and I are getting divorced, my role in the business has effectively ended.
    There's nothing to stop you using a UKA / EA course commercially. Plenty of athletics coaches are now charging athletes - I hasten to add I don't and I doubt anyone would want to pay me anyway

    But should you use any qualification for a purpose to which it isn't intended? I got my cycling proficiency badge in about 1973, but I wouldn't lead a PPP cyclocross recce

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