UKA fell running qualification

[IainR]

Yeah that's what I meant, outside of its remit. This was brought up in the original thread.. I was told by the FRA chairman to email Graeme yet had no response..

I do think UKA/EA realise they've screwed up with this coaching badges. Removing barriers to participation is a noble idea but frankly i can't see how these qualifications are worth the paper they are written on.. I know people who have been on them have been similarly unimpressed with what is dealt with and that they aren't suitable to be used to take people out in the fells.

[dominion]

I'm not au fait with the various qualifications but (to be pedantic for a moment if I may) looking at the relevant company's website (it's easily found if you google the quote in Iain's initial comments) the EA coaching qualification is only mentioned in relation to their 'Trail Running' offer as opposed to 'mountain guiding', whether this makes any difference to insurance etc I'll leave the experts to discuss!

But what is the "England Athletics Association" ?
Are coaching qualifications issued by UKA or England Athletics?

[Tubber]

The way I understand it is that "qualifications" for outdoor activities aren't qualification but assessments and subject to other factors; continued experience and so on. Some schools setup their own assessments for outdoor activities and as long as they can prove they are appropriate they are fine. For example, they might be for a specific area only.

[IainR]

I think the ML etc are qualifications.. well awards.. they are tested.. you have to pass.. its not just a turn up and get given... private schools have more freedom.

[Witton Park]

Iain - you seem to be assuming that these EA qualifications are meant to be for people to take people out on mountains, but they are not - they are coaching qualifications to instruct on technique, development...

It would be like taking the driving test for F1 - it's not appropriate and not meant to be appropriate.

By the way I think Graeme is away - he certainly has been away.

I'm not sure why you seem to have a beef with EA.

[IainR]

Iain - you seem to be assuming that these EA qualifications are meant to be for people to take people out on mountains, but they are not - they are coaching qualifications to instruct on technique, development...

It would be like taking the driving test for F1 - it's not appropriate and not meant to be appropriate.

By the way I think Graeme is away - he certainly has been away.

I'm not sure why you seem to have a beef with EA.

No, but they have the potential to be used as such because the remit is so poor and unclear.. I've seen two guiding companies which list the accredited courses...

I have no beef with EA/UKA? I just think there is a stubborness not to change something. Especially on the FRA side..

Look at the Brits.. everyone knows its failing.. its an awful championship compared to what it was, yet the 3 from 4 remains.. I

I thought it would work when it came in but its clear it didn't and the English is by far the more superior championship, but there is a reluctance to admit that things need changing and I think we are seeing that with the coaching.

[IainR]

Iain - you seem to be assuming that these EA qualifications are meant to be for people to take people out on mountains, but they are not - they are coaching qualifications to instruct on technique, development.....

But on the companies website the language is 'all our LEADERS' and then that they are either formally qualified guides OR accredited coaches.. as I said back then the remit should be set out.. for the ML the remit is clear.. i.e. no planned use of rope.. no terrain where winter gear required etc..

So my concern was.. which I stated here months ago.. was these awards would be misused.. and I think we're already seeing that..

I know of another group of elite runners offering guiding on alpine trail running, in france, and as far as I know they don't have any IML/guiding quals.. all it'll take is someone to have a heart attack and they'd end up in prison in France.. the French really don't mess around with their guiding..

[Witton Park]

I still don't know what your beef is with the FRA and these courses. The FRA doesn't have that much say I'm sure. UKA/EA are the governing bodies and the FRA has worked with them to develop a Fell specific course, which in my experience is just the endurance course with a little re-wording.
I can't see the FRA is at fault here.

If someone wants to go and set up a Rope Access Business and they advertise that they got their Scout's Badge for Knots, then if anyone thinks that gives them credibility they are barking mad.

Likewise if I chose to go in to mountain areas in dangerous conditions, I'll not be asking George Gandy to lead the group (no disrespect to George)

[IainR]

But it comes down to an unclear remit... the remit is so unclear and unspecific I think you could easily say its a qualification to lead people to run on the fells.. LiFR.. LEADERSHIP...

Badly worded.. poorly defined...

[Eleanor]

If someone wants to go and set up a Rope Access Business and they advertise that they got their Scout's Badge for Knots, then if anyone thinks that gives them credibility they are barking mad.

Exactly WP! Some people will always 'talk up' their qualifications for their own purposes.

To some people, (eg. me) the remit of the LIFR and FMR Level 2 courses is very clear. These are not qualifications for mountain guiding and have nothing to do with navigation, but are all to do with group management skills and coaching skills. The trainers on the courses were quite clear about this, not least that we were training for these on athletic tracks with athletics equipment. I can see Ian has a problem with the word 'Leadership' in the LIFR. This is a short course, yes, and a basic level. But I think it is 'leadership' because it's about leading a group through a structured training session based on running (as opposed to basketball, javelin, football, etc). Leadership in Running Fitness is a clear title - leading a group to get fitter for running.

People much more experienced than me may well have found the content of the LIFR and Level 2 too basic - this is a different issue of course - and in this case there are Level 3s to move onto. People like me wanting to coach runners to improve their running, well to be frank we need to start with the basics. And people like me who understand what these courses are for, we will never be using them to talk our way into mountain leadership jobs.