attempts 20/21

[crowhill]

Cheers for that Jason,its those downs I need be carefull on I love blasting down then ! Need to order people to shout at me if needed.

Where did you make most of you time up pal ?

From memory it was something like:

Leg 1: 5 minutes (only due to a 20 min descent of Blencathra! = ITB paid for later)
Leg 2: 35 (quick descents of Dollywaggon, Fairfield, Seat Sandal = more knee pain)
Leg 3: 10 (suffered and felt slow, but excellent navigation)
Leg 4: 50 (dream leg)
Leg 5: 25 (most of that on the road!)

I also shaved some more minutes with quick roadstops.

I think a more steady leg 2 would have made a quicker leg 3.

[Bob]

4. Schedule: Stick to the schedule on the first leg. It ensures you don't go too fast and blow up/ If you want to beat your schedule, there's more slack on leg 4 & 5 than 1 & 2.

Looking at schedules of fast (< 19hrs) completion times what I noticed was that the first leg times, while quick, weren't excessively so, probably 22hr schedule or thereabouts. Where the difference came was that the following legs were pretty much the same pace, i.e. there was little or no slowing down. At standard 23.5hr pace the Skiddaw leg averages around 3mph whereas the Wasdale-Honsiter leg is 2MPH, bump up the speed to 2.5MPH and you are an hour quicker for that leg.

Quite a few rounds seem to be cutting down on the time at road crossings, typically spending 5 minutes or less at the change-overs. Your team does need to be on the ball for this though.

[GeoffB]

Don't worry - I won't be letting him go fast on Leg 2!

Jason's right, though, Legs 4 & 5 have loads of slack in them.

[mountain bag]

Don't worry - I won't be letting him go fast on Leg 2!

Jason's right, though, Legs 4 & 5 have loads of slack in them.

Its the sensible approach, stead as she goes legs 1, 2 then start nailing them to the wall after you get to the later/higher parts of leg 3 once you know what you've got left in the tank. Oh that and I'm supporting leg 1

[Stolly]

In an effort to get a bit of an insight to Bob's 'Bob' schedule calculator I compared legs 4 and 5 taken together on a 23 hr clockwise round to them done as legs 1 and 2 anticlockwise. I guess there's a tad more climb going clockwise (Wasdale probably being a bit lower than Keswick) but, other than that, the Bob calculator allows 45 more minutes on the clockwise round, presumably mainly due to fatigue (8 hrs 9 vs 7 hrs 24). So saving some grunt for later should put the schedule calculator in your favour if nothing else.

Mind you its all a bit of an enigma, what ever number crunching goes into the schedule calculations, and my schedule was with a 10% rockness adjustment....... whatever the heck that does

Oh and good luck this weekend Andy

[Bob]

The calculator is actually fairly simple (honestly!) but I think I got the original schedules from Mike Sadula's website but it's so long ago that I can't remember and I've no idea why the counterclockwise schedule is faster than the clockwise one. I have altered the base times somewhat over the years as some sections just seemed wrong and sections like Skiddaw to Great Calva have become much easier with the passage of many feet so that time has been reduced by a few minutes.

The time adjustments are basically linear, there's no fancy maths involved. If we took a standard time between two tops that happened to be 46 minutes on a 23hr schedule then for a 21hr schedule the time is simply multiplied by 21/23, i.e 42 minutes. For the majority of timings the maths isn't that simple so the resulting time is rounded to the nearest minute, i.e. 41:30 to 42:29 would all show as 42 minutes. Some people really struggle with moving quickly over rocky ground so the "rockiness" factor takes account of that by increasing the adjusted time by a percentage before the rounding takes place. This is only done on a few sections - Bowfell to Scafell and KirkFell to Green Gable from memory.

Getting the calculations done for the later stages that accurately reflects how people actually move on quick rounds is something that I need to look at. It will need a bit of mathematical jiggery pokery

[Mrs Stagger]

Good luck Andy!!

[Theolneywayisup]

The calculator is actually fairly simple (honestly!) but I think I got the original schedules from Mike Sadula's website but it's so long ago that I can't remember and I've no idea why the counterclockwise schedule is faster than the clockwise one. I have altered the base times somewhat over the years as some sections just seemed wrong and sections like Skiddaw to Great Calva have become much easier with the passage of many feet so that time has been reduced by a few minutes.

The time adjustments are basically linear, there's no fancy maths involved. If we took a standard time between two tops that happened to be 46 minutes on a 23hr schedule then for a 21hr schedule the time is simply multiplied by 21/23, i.e 42 minutes. For the majority of timings the maths isn't that simple so the resulting time is rounded to the nearest minute, i.e. 41:30 to 42:29 would all show as 42 minutes. Some people really struggle with moving quickly over rocky ground so the "rockiness" factor takes account of that by increasing the adjusted time by a percentage before the rounding takes place. This is only done on a few sections - Bowfell to Scafell and KirkFell to Green Gable from memory.

Getting the calculations done for the later stages that accurately reflects how people actually move on quick rounds is something that I need to look at. It will need a bit of mathematical jiggery pokery

When preparing for my BG last year I looked at a number of calculators and noticed a marked difference between Bob's and Dark Peaks. One starting at a much faster pace than the other. I therefore took a mid point between the 2 on each summit to come out with an 'averaged' calculator and this turned out to be pretty good compromise.

[Stolly]

When preparing for my BG last year I looked at a number of calculators and noticed a marked difference between Bob's and Dark Peaks. One starting at a much faster pace than the other. I therefore took a mid point between the 2 on each summit to come out with an 'averaged' calculator and this turned out to be pretty good compromise.

I didn't realise Dark Peak had a calculator. I just had a fiddle with it and found it quite different to Bob's, allowing more time on legs 1 and 2 and less on 3, 4 and 5. I think I prefer Bob's to be honest but in the long run its swings and roundabouts

Edit: What is absolutely brilliant on the DP site though are the maps An extract of the second stage of the Wasdale to Honister route for instance with all the compass bearings included

[Bob]

I didn't realise they had either. Looking at the DP times I'd say that with one or two exceptions the times for a 23:30 round are broadly similar, usually plus or minus a minute or two. The time for going up Skiddaw is different by 16 minutes (slower on the DP version) but the real oddity are the times from High Raise to Sergeant Man to Thunacar Knott, 2 & 5 minutes respectfully. I don't know anyone who can run directly from HR to TK in 7 minutes let alone going via SM. For instance, Billy Bland took 6 & 10 minutes on his record round.

One thing that neither calculator can take account for is having a bad patch which can affect any contender at any point. Ultimately they are just guidelines rather than rigid guides.