The lost art of navigation?

[XRunner]

Just before the Borrowdale fell race I happened to compare my compass (which was pointing north as you might expect) to Hester's which had the red arrow firmly pointing south! She was somewhat sceptical that her compass was wrong and compared it to Gavin's, another runner nearby. Gavin's compass too was pointing south! But both of their (micky mouse) compasses were absolutely wrong.

Never mind GPS, don't always trust your compass

My old compass points south - but I did buy it in South Africa! I got used to this quirk.

[sol]

I once attempted a recce of the Duddon race, on the climb upto Little Stand (i think!) the weather went mental, blizzard, zero visibility. For some reason i did nt have my compass but had my garmin on, so i thought id use it to find my way back to the road or start point.....i did nt work the blumin' needle just kept spinning. A similar thing happened on a recce of kentmere, i ended up doing 16 miles, visited Hayeswater and did nt get further than high street!!
I ve since enhanced my skills, learnt to remember my compass and not rely on race maps. It was an experience though, funny, but not at the time!

[Mike T]

I once attempted a recce of the Duddon race, on the climb upto Little Stand (i think!) the weather went mental, blizzard, zero visibility. For some reason i did nt have my compass but had my garmin on, so i thought id use it to find my way back to the road or start point.....i did nt work the blumin' needle just kept spinning. A similar thing happened on a recce of kentmere, i ended up doing 16 miles, visited Hayeswater and did nt get further than high street!!
I ve since enhanced my skills, learnt to remember my compass and not rely on race maps. It was an experience though, funny, but not at the time!

The Garmin 610, if you use the back to start facility, sends you back the way you came. I suspect if you press it several times on route it will contradict itself.

[OnTor]

Just before the Borrowdale fell race I happened to compare my compass (which was pointing north as you might expect) to Hester's which had the red arrow firmly pointing south! She was somewhat sceptical that her compass was wrong and compared it to Gavin's, another runner nearby. Gavin's compass too was pointing south! But both of their (micky mouse) compasses were absolutely wrong.

Never mind GPS, don't always trust your compass

Very true - this is a known issue regardless of quality!

[IanDarkpeak]

According to the FRA navigation course that I went on, you also shouldn't trust your compass if you are wearing an underwired bra...Mr.Navigator, did I dream that bit or was it actually really said? Re Borrowdale, you've got to admit that two compasses pointing south is quite unusual but evidence that you shouldn't trust anything. I remember the day Stolly and I were doing a recce of Langdale Horseshoe and he was able to demonstrate his relocation skills when we discovered that were actually on Glaramara :thumbup:

No GPS for me thank you, I am still trying to get the hang of a compass and map.

the last FRA course I was instructong on one guy was really struggleing to use his compass...I tried his compass and also struggled. it took me a couple of miutes to realise the steel whistle attachjed to it was messy up his compass.

You certainly can, any strong magnetic force can do such a thing

amongst other things. it is possible to re polariseit with a strong magnet or silva will do it.

map and compass are king gps are good fun as a back up. but they take the skill out of our sport.

[Maria Dixon]

Yes, this can happen, either due to rubbish compasses or local geology.

It's got nothing to do with the quality of the compass - if it's consistently pointing in exactly the wrong direction then it's been de/re-polarised. Probably by contact with a magnet or similar. I had this happen when I put my Blackerry (which has a magnet in the case) next to my compass in a bag. It's easy to reverse - just stroke a magnet along the length of the needle repeatedly to reverse it.

Geology has a toally different effect - the needle may be out, but not by 180 degrees usually, and the effect will alter as you move over different rock types.

[that_fjell_guy]

God knows I don't want to be controversial but...

I do agree with almost all of this thread, but also gaining experience can be quite tricky I guess. I started running in North York Moors races (where zero real navigation is required for the most part!). The next thing I did was Yorkshire Dales races like Ingleborough, Pen-y-Ghent areas where I had very little experience. Although I made sure I carried kit, map etc and I'd practised a bit I hadn't used any skills in anger. Lakes races followed such as Langdale, Grisedale and Three Shires. I'd guess I still hadn't used my kit for real, and had little real experience in the Lakes ( a little walking at most). But I wanted to race, and I wanted to gain experience. Thats how it went on...gaining experience, carrying kit but really never having the need to use it. The first time I really recall using it was Helvelyn race, predictably I got 'lost', although not as lost as some I ended up with. I did find my way back on line but had to retire. I guess I had used navigation a little during other walks I recall Fairfield was one occasion. But I guess what I'm saying is how do you gain experience in using the skills you may have aquired. I guess I've still used my compass on a relatively few occasions, some quiet hairy, but I'm pretty sure I can get myself out of trouble.

Bit long winded, sorry!!

[AndyA]

Yes, this can happen, either due to rubbish compasses or local geology..

It also happens when a group of runners stick their compasses next to each others to see which is right; they'll all try to point towards each other!

I think GPS watches are brilliant; I've been using my Forerunner for over 4 years now, both for getting an idea of how far I've gone and also for planning long runs as part of my Fellsman training.

It was extremely useful to be able to plan a 20-30 mile run in advance on a completely new area, just by drawing lines on Google Earth; took about 15-20 mins at most. Out on the run I could concentrate on following rather than finding my way and could maintain a much better pace. The 'return to start' feature is also very useful if you just want to run for a set distance; just press the button at halfway and it'll guide you home. Chances are you'll recognise most of it anyway.

I'd agree that compass and map skills are invaluable; gps devices are of little use in MM and other nav events when you get a map on the day. It would have been no use on the Fellsman 'cos the batteries don't last that long anyway!

But; don't knock gps devices if you haven't tried them (and I bet most of you haven't) they can be a very useful addition to your training.

[Maria Dixon]

Probably also worth mentioning that I've also seen a compass get depolarised by one of those magetic things people use to attach a camelbak tube to their chest strap (a stupid invention if ever there was one). The magnet wasn't strong, and all it took was a short period of the compass hanging around their neck.

Worht being aware of.

[rachelruns]

I remember a few years ago being at the top of mickledore from wasdale about to turn up to the left to scafell pike summit when a couple of chaps stopped me to confirm where they were, they were convinced scafell pike was up to the right and were using a GPS, even though I had never been up there before and the clag was down, I'd practiced map and compass skills on my own, reading books and on valley walks in good conditions so felt confident up in the fells. The other day I was on a family day out to roseberry topping, a beautiful clear day and was amazed whilst we were at the top a guy asked us which was the way back, back to where? I asked him, he didn't have a clue where he had come from, which path or anything, astounding.

Anyway, I digress, I do have a Garmin forerunner I use and I do have a garmin etrex gps to plan runs and then follow it in an area I've not run in before, but always have a map and compass as back up, just cos it's easier to follow a gps without stopping all the time to check a map, but I agree nothing comes close to knowing how to use a map and compass (although tell that to my husband when i was arguing with him at the top of carn mor dearg in the clag that our silva compass was totally wrong, but it was me that was wrong)