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Thread: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

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    Master IainR's Avatar
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    Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    OK to leave the other thread and start a new one. I'm also bored at work :-)

    What is the general view on such tactics as ground marking by paint and the use of ladders on technical sections?

    I've been called 'elitist' for my opposition to this, but the more I think about it the more I think it's just not cricket.

    The rounds are an incredible achievement, I've been training for the PBR so been doing the sections and pacing for others and ran 24 hr ultras so have an idea of what is involved.

    But reducing the technical sections to ladders, removing the navigating, why be out in the hills at all. Why not just set a tread mill and run 65 miles and 30,000 ft of ascent?

    Anyway just interested.

    I personally wouldn't be involved in a round which used ladders to say get to the top of Glyder Fach or laid sand down on the bogs of the boundary ridge or burnt the heather of Y Gyrn. The challenge is to cover the ground, that unfortunately means waist high heather on Y Gryn, bogs on Carnedd Cribau, scree on Glyder Fawr.

    If the National Park decide to lay an A1 path along the boundary ridge then fair enough, I'll certainly run it and it would reduce a good 30 minutes off a round.

    GPS was also mentioned, personaly I view the use of a GPS differently, I have one, but find a map and compass far faster and also more accurate and reliable. The MLTB's will no doubt shortly bring them into the ML syllabus so they are now very much considered a standard piece of kit.

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    Master XRunner's Avatar
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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    During the 19c the introduction of accurate maps and small compasses was considered unethical by mountain travellers.

    Guides with local knowledge who took people to the top of Lake District mountains, were particularly upset by these artificial aids.
    Fox Avatar "Protected" by Hester Cox - Printmaker

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    Master IainR's Avatar
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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    Good point.

    I think in time GPS's will be held in the same regard as compass's.

    But that's why I feel a GPS is different to ladders/paint.

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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    I'd have to agree that the use of ladders and paint markings is just not right!

    Especially paint markings, the hills are just not the place for them. My wee local hill(Dumyat)was marred for years by marker arrows which I believe were placed by either Hash House Harriers or organisers of a triathlon training camp at Stirling Uni.

    As far as a GPS goes, while I wouldn't use one myself, wouldn't have a problem with that.

    No problems at all with any other piece of equipment that the person doing the round is carrying with them I think.

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    Senior Member Duff's Avatar
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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    It seems to me that the BG, PBR, or whatever, are about moving under your own steam and doing the peaks in the time allocation.
    As long as the environment is not harmed (other than the enevitable harm we cause be simply being there), I think everyone chooses their own boundaries for their personnal challenge.
    The danger of one person getting prescriptive about what constitutes 'good style' is that you do belittle other peoples' achievements, regardless of your intention.
    BTW, as I understand it, the ladder on Scafell was a small caving ladder that could easily be bypassed, as could the numerous top ropes and knotted handrail ropes that are usually used to haul people up BS. How many BG'ers actually get up BS without being helped just a little bit? Don't know and it's none of my business.

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    Senior Member rossendalemark's Avatar
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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    Got to say I don't use a GPS. Its partly because I can't afford one but also I like using a map and compass and have never had any problems with them. I feel that the use of markings and ladders is a step too far. However I have never tried the BG and may be glad of these if I did. Especially if I did it solo.
    30 years and still here.

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    Master IainR's Avatar
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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    I agree re the fun of a map and compass.

    I've just done my ML and my wife has her assessment this month, so once every few weeks we go out and find featues out on the hills, it's an excellent way to improve your navigating and quite fun. The dogs seem to enjoy it more than running as they have more time to play.

  8. #8

    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    the ladder on Scafell was a small caving ladder that could easily be bypassed
    Was this not in position because of the conditions ie very wet and slippery, if so not many walkers would go anywhere near broad stand in the wet so rather than get in the way of others it would actually encourage people to go that way, if its dry then yes it would get in the way but rather than it being an ethics problem its more a consideration for other users.

    If they rope/ladder are removed right away whats the problem?

    Permanent/powder markings are different it spoils things for others and thats not on, whats next a load of cateyes every 50m on the night sections? (don't even think about it)

    Bill

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    Senior Member macc ladd's Avatar
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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    There's not much difference between a knotted rope and a caving ladder. If one is acceptable and not the other, what about Etriers?... (effectively a tape loop ladder).

    Not so keen on markings on the ground, or the reflective tapes I've seen at the back of Skiddaw. Too much impact for me.

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    Master IainR's Avatar
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    Re: Mountain Rounds - Tactics

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggins View Post

    Permanent/powder markings are different it spoils things for others and thats not on, whats next a load of cateyes every 50m on the night sections? (don't even think about it)

    Bill
    I was out in Australia earlier this year, and running through the Warrumbungles, a national Park out west of Sydney, on the rockier sections they had cateyes scewed into the rocks every 10 or so meters, they even had a perfectly bricked path and a staircase down a rockier section which wouldn't have looked out of place in Meadowhall. This was about 10k's out from the nearest road.

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