Slowing down to speed up?

[Robin S]

Hi All,

I'm a complete fell novice and only marginally more experienced in running/racing more generally. I've done a number of 'trail' races (EnduranceLife coastal series - 10k) and have started to place fairly well in them this year. I've started competing (well, taking part at least) in the South Wales Winter Hill Series and am finding it really difficult to pace the races.

In the trail races (and other stuff - Park Run 5k (PB 19:18), the odd flat 10k race (PB 39:43)) I've been getting by on basically running as fast as I can and hanging on in there. Suffice to say this 'strategy' (if it can be called that!) has not been working out on the Hills. Basically, I'm getting caught up in the initial run from the line as I feel pretty good and am at a 'trail race pace' that I could sustain. By the time the hill comes I'm leaking places like anything. This was particularly bad at Tor Y Foel at the weekend and, although like usual I regained a couple of places when things got on the level again, I was pretty p#ssed off (with myself) by the finish line.

So, I'm wondering if pacing myself from the off and saving it for the 'lumpy bits' is the right thing to do - would I end up even further behind as I'm not making the most of the only (slight) strength have at present - speed on the flat? I'm going to give a more steady pacing a go in the next race but, for now, is the answer a) man up, eat more Weetabix and get out on the hills more b) a better pacing strategy c) continue to just run as fast as I can and learn to live with it.

Any advice very much appreciated.

Rob

[Athers]

Interesting reading this as i am pretty new to fell racing too. Ive run for years and trained on the fells with my old man for football fitness but only just started to race properly. Like you i am fairly quick on the flat, (roughly same 5k times there bar a few seconds) and i also start strong in races where i feel comfortable but start losing places left right and centre when i hit the very steep stuff. I learned to push on runnable climbs and keep my pace up but when it comes to walking i drop quite a number. Now this also happened to me at Tor Y Foel where i was in a good position all the way to the main climb then BAM they start sneaking past. I'm going to keep using this method as its paid off in a few super short races (3mile) as i am a very confident descender (had 3rd place in the bag on jubilee plunge until i went over a wrong stile at the end. ha!) hoping that i get stronger at climbing also and can maintain that position.

[DazTheSlug]

I judge fell races by effort rather than pace
I usually have a rough idea of how long the race is going to take me - 40mins, 90mins, 3hrs... whatever
then I set off at the maximum level of effort that I think I can sustain for that length of time
most races you should have a good idea whether to apply, 5k, 10k, half-mara, mara or ultra effort

[DrPatrickBarry]

Agree with Daz. Another thing is look at the course record this will give you an idea of how long a race it would be if it was a flat road race then you can gauge the amount of effort to put in. For example the 13 mile Langdale horseshoe has a 1:55 course record. That is not much faster than a 26 mile marathon.

[Robin S]

I judge fell races by effort rather than pace
I usually have a rough idea of how long the race is going to take me - 40mins, 90mins, 3hrs... whatever
then I set off at the maximum level of effort that I think I can sustain for that length of time
most races you should have a good idea whether to apply, 5k, 10k, half-mara, mara or ultra effort

Thanks Daz and Patrick. I guess the problem I have, similarly to Athers, is that I'm unsure how to judge effort across a fell race. If it was flat, trail my 40min effort would find me in a decent position. This same effort, however, finds me knackered when it gets steep so it doesn't seem quite so simple to me as maintaining a sustained effort relating to length of race at this point. Hopefully I'll figure that out though!

[Robin S]

I should add, I'm not obsessed by position and times and am loving what I have found in fell running. But part of that enjoyment is, for me, pushing to get better at it.

[noel]

There are two schools of thought on this. Logically, you should run a steady heart-rate throughout the race. Anything else is interval training, and you don't want to do that during a race.

However, if you're naturally better at some bits, you might like to target those sections. For example, Ian Holmes keeps enough back for the descents so he can really go for it. Whereas Rob Jebb knows he'll get taken on the descents so has to flog his guts out on the uphill bits. I'm teasing RJ here - often he doesn't get caught; but you get the idea.

If you're a flat specialist you might like to set off quick, then be ready to slow up on the hills. This will be hard as you'll lose a lot of places. However, you'll then have the legs to gain places on the subsequent flat sections. I guess most fell races are flat-up-down-flat. In which case keeping your burst of flat speed to the end could be to your advantage.

[IainR]

There are two schools of thought on this. Logically, you should run a steady heart-rate throughout the race. Anything else is interval training, and you don't want to do that during a race.

However, if you're naturally better at some bits, you might like to target those sections. For example, Ian Holmes keeps enough back for the descents so he can really go for it. Whereas Rob Jebb knows he'll get taken on the descents so has to flog his guts out on the uphill bits. I'm teasing RJ here - often he doesn't get caught; but you get the idea.

If you're a flat specialist you might like to set off quick, then be ready to slow up on the hills. This will be hard as you'll lose a lot of places. However, you'll then have the legs to gain places on the subsequent flat sections. I guess most fell races are flat-up-down-flat. In which case keeping your burst of flat speed to the end could be to your advantage.

I used to be able to hold it in and get loads back.. if I was 5th at the summit I was fairly confident of top 3.. now if I hold my place its rare.. so I have to push much harder on the way up.. on a runnable track like descent, wyddfa et al, I can do OK on those.. it's the proper fell descents.. which was my strongest part.. is now undoubtably my weakest..

Not sure if its injuries.. lack of fell specific training age-related gain in sensibility or just going soft...

[mr brightside]

Basically, I'm getting caught up in the initial run from the line as I feel pretty good and am at a 'trail race pace' that I could sustain. By the time the hill comes I'm leaking places like anything. This was particularly bad at Tor Y Foel at the weekend and, although like usual I regained a couple of places when things got on the level again, I was pretty p#ssed off (with myself) by the finish line.

I have this problem and i put it down to leg power. Half the people who beat me on steep runs would lose to me on a flatter course.

So, I'm wondering if pacing myself from the off and saving it for the 'lumpy bits' is the right thing to do - would I end up even further behind as I'm not making the most of the only (slight) strength have at present - speed on the flat? I'm going to give a more steady pacing a go in the next race but, for now, is the answer a) man up, eat more Weetabix and get out on the hills more b) a better pacing strategy c) continue to just run as fast as I can and learn to live with it.

Any advice very much appreciated.

Rob

I don't bother to pace myself at all, but i only run on the short distance scene; i have run mediums at full throttle before, it just takes time to get accustomed. I started a thread called 'getting a good start' or something in which i debated the subject. I don't believe there is any point in saving energy in fell racing unless you are running over 10m.

[Athers]

Mr B. I am 100% on your level of thought with 100% maximum attack all the way from the gun. Although like you I'm only a fan of the shorter sharper races. 8 mile 2,500ft can be tough going full on but a 3 miler is not worth doing if you don't go at it hard. Just my opinion of course.