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Thread: Chasing the Dragon

  1. #1
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    Chasing the Dragon

    "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." - Les Brown

    I'm Ben. I should begin with a disclaimer: I'm a bit mad. I do big, outrageous goals, because otherwise how does one get anything awesome done?

    Background: I'm seriously hyperactive by nature, but have done almost no structured exercise for the majority of my life. I've always liked the idea of running, especially in wild terrain, but have always been too busy with umpteen other hobbies to devote the amount of time I knew it would take to get good enough to be worth it.

    Last year, having reached the grand old age of 27 and settled down a bit, I revisited the idea and decided to go for it, with no actual plan besides "as much as possible as fast as possible". One month of inadvisedly rapid mileage increase (on concrete!) later, cue crippling shin splints and a medically-demanded one-month break from any exercise. Cue in turn characteristic Aspie tantrum :angry: "sod this, I have other hobbies that aren't self-limiting", stop running.

    One year later, decide to try again with a more thought-out plan.

    But creating an actual plan meant I needed a sufficiently insane goal. Some digging around follows, and it turns out there's this thing called the Dragon's Back Race. Turns out it next runs in mid 2015. That's got to be enough time to train up, I thought. Ah, but no - applications close in September 2014, and all relevant experience for qualification has to be clocked before then. The best 60 applications get guaranteed places, then 60 more are drawn by lottery from all other entrants.

    Shrug. Deadlines are good for the soul.

    Still, 18 months from couch to "ten marathons in five days over mountains"... clearly this will take some planning. It's not entirely clear what standard of experience is going to be required, but a typical day on the DBR is 30-35 miles with about 15,000 feet of ascent. Ergo, I figure I need to beat both of those figures by a decent amount (in single-day events), as well as doing something multi-day, to have a chance of qualifying.

    So my current schedule looks something like this:

    First six months (Mar 2013-Sep 2013): reach marathon standard. Demonstrate this by doing the Loch Ness marathon in under 4 hours (preferably under 3:30 - hey, it *is* mostly downhill). This constitutes a gentle introduction that I'm hoping will build enough bone/tendon strength to avoid injuries later on.

    Second six months
    (Sep 2013-Mar 2014): mileage up to ~50mi, with some ascent. Demonstrate this by doing the White Cliffs 50 (53mi, 5,800ft).

    Final six months (Mar 2014-Sep 2014): more ascent, multi-day race experience. Great Lakelands 3-Day in May, V3K in June. Sometime in late August/early September, either the Mourne 500 or (if things are going really well) at least an *attempt* at a Bob Graham round.

    Oh, and somewhere along the way, learn how to use a map and compass. I'm thinking that's probably not very hard, but since the closest I've ever come to map-reading is tabletop role-playing, I realise I could be totally wrong...

    I am aware that on the 1-10 madness scale, this is somewhere around a 12. See above re landing amongst the stars.

    I'm based in Cambridgeshire, so getting hill experience is going to be "interesting" (especially since I don't drive). I do have various ideas for increasing the difficulty of running around fens (Training Mask, shoe weights, heavy backpacks...), but I figure a lot of long weekends out to real geography are going to be required. Per the other Cantabrigian thread (hi, Irrevocable!), I'm looking at the Midsummer Madness weekend in June for an initial taster of real fell running.

    So... experienced people... tips (other than "don't do it, you mad sod"), ideas for better ways to arrange my training schedule, etc?

  2. #2
    Master DrPatrickBarry's Avatar
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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    This thread followed last years race and there are some links to blogs by the compititors.
    It gets a little political near the end!

    http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...Back-Race-2012

    I would have though you should set your sights on a Paddy Buckley first as that would give a fair indication of what you would be facing.
    Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 28-03-2013 at 11:39 AM.

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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    Ambitious!! But you're young and...well lets just stay at young! I think, personally, I'd not be bothering with any road marathons and be looking to get out, off road preferably in the hills or coastal paths. LDWA events are good. Then I'd look to see what other ultras there are in your vicinity, I think there are a few. Even just going out over weekends etc to do long distance footpaths such as Ridgeway. I'd keep off the roads as much as you can as it may be gentler on your joints etc as you have such a steep adaption/fitness curve to follow. I'm sure there'll be others along in a bit to give thier thoughst!!? GOOD LUCK!!

    I wish I'd had your blinkered self-belief when I was your age, or even now!! (...thats a good thing btw!)
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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by DrPatrickBarry View Post
    This thread followed last years race and there are some links to blogs by the compititors.
    It gets a little political near the end!

    http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/showt...Back-Race-2012

    I would have though you should set your sights on a Paddy Buckley first as that would give a fair indication of what you would be facing.
    Brilliant - I'll give that a read after work (I've already pre-ordered the "Chasing the Dragon" DVD about the 2012 race). I'd not heard of the Paddy Buckley Round - but that does look like a better idea than the Bob Graham, since it's practically recce for some of the Dragon's Back course - interesting that it's so similar in length and total ascent.

    Quote Originally Posted by that_fjell_guy View Post
    Ambitious!! But you're young and...well lets just stay at young! I think, personally, I'd not be bothering with any road marathons and be looking to get out, off road preferably in the hills or coastal paths. LDWA events are good. Then I'd look to see what other ultras there are in your vicinity, I think there are a few. Even just going out over weekends etc to do long distance footpaths such as Ridgeway. I'd keep off the roads as much as you can as it may be gentler on your joints etc as you have such a steep adaption/fitness curve to follow. I'm sure there'll be others along in a bit to give thier thoughst!!? GOOD LUCK!!

    I wish I'd had your blinkered self-belief when I was your age, or even now!! (...thats a good thing btw!)
    Thanks! Healthy disregard for limitations and all that

    I am indeed planning to keep off roads as much as possible (per the previous episode with shin splints, which I blame partly on running on pavement; I'm currently training on a field near my house, which seems to be fending them off pretty well). I'll definitely check out the LDWA events.

    Interesting that you'd suggest skipping the marathon - it seems like a sensible interim goal/progress check to me - can you elaborate a little on why not?

    ETA: re LDWA - I tend to regard walking as "not really exercise", because I don't get out of breath or feel tired the day after (apparently regardless of distance, though I've never done more than 15 miles or so in one go; this might be another hyperactive-bastard trait) - to what extent is walking a long distance over a given terrain, good practice for running it?
    Last edited by BZealley; 28-03-2013 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by BZealley View Post
    can you elaborate a little on why not?
    I would have thought that simply a mountain marathon would be of more benefit. There are loads such as Wasdale, Ennerdale, Peris Horseshoe, Daz Holloway Memorial Race, Teenager with Altitute, Old County Tops Fell Race, Tour of Helvellyn, etc
    Last edited by DrPatrickBarry; 28-03-2013 at 01:19 PM.

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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    I'd be tempted to miss the marathon as I'd think you could find a similar long distance off road event and while speed is useful I'd think its more leg strength and stamina that you'll require for the Dragon's Back (...I'm no expert on this type of massive event, but have done a couple of ultra's and the Lakes Longs etc). I think they're hoping to re-schedule the Edale Skyline for instance to about the same time. I'd be aiming to race and train very specifically as you're very short of time to gain experience etc (...from my understanding from your post). Some of the LDWA events can, and are ran, and are often a gentler introduction to going long off road. I'd possibly even suggest an event like the Bullock Smith which is in September. Its 55 mile in the Peak District but infinetaly do-able even if you end up walking chunks! You'd possibly need to go up and do recce's too which would potentially focus your training. As for walking being training for running, 'time on your feet' is said to be a crucial part of training for an ultra and I'm pretty sure, if you get to do the Dragons Back, some walking will be required!
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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    ..As Pat says!!
    I M Povey New Marske Harriers
    http://manwithoutashed.blogspot.com

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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by BZealley View Post
    ETA: re LDWA - I tend to regard walking as "not really exercise", because I don't get out of breath or feel tired the day after (apparently regardless of distance, though I've never done more than 15 miles or so in one go; this might be another hyperactive-bastard trait) - to what extent is walking a long distance over a given terrain, good practice for running it?
    Lots of folk run some of the LDWA events - you need to get miles and hours in your legs!

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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    Forget about road training or marathons. Do plenty of 'hard' hill walking, on the DB you will do far more walking than running (unless you are seriously elite), concentrate on long days out in the mountains 8hrs+ walking all the uphills and gently jog the downs. Then back to back days. Do ldwa events whenever possible and run those as best you can - treat them as your 'speed sessions' over 25 miles+!

    Start entering as many mountain marathons as possible and learn your navigation and looking after yourself. Bad blisters and another 3 days agony ahead of you.
    Learn all about what you can eat and drink on long days out, best clothing etc. how to read your body signs and how to cope when you feel s**t. Try and cram 10 years of accumulated mountain craft into 2 years.
    Forget about speed running, save your energy for the long days and hills. Spend this year building up enough body strength to be able to train properly next year, it isn't just running like on tarmac everything needs to be tough (ankles, knees, shoulders). Consider walking poles, most use them.

    That's a start anyway, the rest is mental fortitude.
    Don't roll with a pig in poo. You get covered in poo and the pig likes it.

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    Re: Chasing the Dragon

    Ok, Couch to dragons back in 18 months, wow...

    Maybe doable, but:

    1, You won't be racing it, you should 'just' aim to survive it.
    2, You should be prepared for the very real possibility of very serious injury and/or illness in the 6-12 months following the event.

    I was there last year. I saw what it did and has done to people, VERY fit people - with years of running behind them.

    i'm not saying that it can't be done. I think it can be. What I'm questioning is whether it should be done...

    Would make a great follow up to the film from last year. I just hope the ending is a happy one!


    If that is your sole aim then fine, good luck - go for it. But if you're interested in having a long, happy and healthy running carer you may want to think twice.

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