Winter Hill Fell Race

[Mr Ricepudding]

Lovely stuff when wet. Got nothing on martcrag moor though, and who else remembers the time before the paving to great hill. Saw someone go up to their shoulders on the old three towers race there.

However there was still absolutely no reason to shut the race down. None.
Entire sections of that moorland never see a visitor. With the sole exception of the descent down to the eastern checkpoint before turn up to the track, the moorland there all the way from the quarries to belmont at least a mile , if not two and half a mile wide rarely if ever sees a pair of feet. Other parts just like it. So if the moor is still failing it is not human transit to blame. And the race affects so little of it it is not the problem: it is entirely consistent with having it as an SSSI and still allowing a race through it.

There is an easy solution. Designate the race trods as footpaths. Force a route in the parts that do not have a trod already. Then constrain races to paths including those.

It is a failure of will, not of way.

Are you saying that the RO hasn't tried hard enough?

[Graeme78]

Are you saying that the RO hasn't tried hard enough?

No I think he is suggesting United Utilities and Natural England haven't tried hard enough.

[Mr Ricepudding]

I see - well i would agree with that

[DazTheSlug]

I hereby predict that within the next 3 years NE/UU will introduce cattle onto the land in order that their hooves break up the surface "naturally" to aid biodiversity...

[alwaysinjured]

Are you saying that the RO hasn't tried hard enough?

As somebody stated - my gripe is with the quangos who are unwilling to consider even simple solutions, not the long suffering RO. I pointed out the "designate trods as footpaths" to prove that one of these underemployed bureaucrats could easily fix the problem within the spirit and objectives. Most are more interested in wielding authority rather than exercising responsibility.

Occasionally some good comes of mindless bureaucracy completely by accident. The obvious route of TWA over sail was actually barred by the national trust because of erosion/ecology - as if 100 runners would ever make a difference on a day when several times as many walkers pass that way - net result they had to divert the route from Causey to the small hill on the right whose name escapes me, and the race is actually better for it. ( or it was a better route till FRA decided to make the race non compliant, and still demand the RO sign up to say it was compliant, with the inevitable result. No TWA. or not under FRA rules again.

[Al Fowler]

As somebody stated - my gripe is with the quangos who are unwilling to consider even simple solutions, not the long suffering RO. I pointed out the "designate trods as footpaths" to prove that one of these underemployed bureaucrats could easily fix the problem within the spirit and objectives. Most are more interested in wielding authority rather than exercising responsibility.

Occasionally some good comes of mindless bureaucracy completely by accident. The obvious route of TWA over sail was actually barred by the national trust because of erosion/ecology - as if 100 runners would ever make a difference on a day when several times as many walkers pass that way - net result they had to divert the route from Causey to the small hill on the right whose name escapes me, and the race is actually better for it. ( or it was a better route till FRA decided to make the race non compliant, and still demand the RO sign up to say it was compliant, with the inevitable result. No TWA. or not under FRA rules again.

Outerside?

It still makes absolutely no sense to me. Why restrict something that surely has more benifits of happeing than not.

1.) Peoples general happiness and enjoyment of racing over the moors.
2.) These peoples health benifits.
3.) Donations to Mountain Rescue.
4.) People may learn about the history of the hill. If I hadnt of heard of winter hill or the race, I might never of looked into the various aspects of the hertigate and goings on of the hill.
5.) Peoples greater understanding and respect for not just winter hill, but possibly the natural/environmental things generally throughout the UK.

Im sure the list would be huge.

Negatives of the race to winter hill:
Erosion - The argument has absolutelyno leg to stand on surely unless they ban all foot traffic to runners, walkers and MTB's on the areas affectes.
Has ground nesting birds been mentioned? Surely they have a few more brain cells to not nest of a trod with mudclaw stud imprints in.
Some plants might get trodden on - im sure they will grow back. They dont have feelings, they dont contribute to the economy that is funding this enforcement and I bet they dont even appreciate that the races has been lost.

Blah blah blah. Its a bloody shame. Cheers to all who battled to save the race.

[Fellhound]

Spot on Al

[alwaysinjured]

Outerside?

It still makes absolutely no sense to me. Why restrict something that surely has more benifits of happeing than not.

1.) Peoples general happiness and enjoyment of racing over the moors.
2.) These peoples health benifits.
3.) Donations to Mountain Rescue.
4.) People may learn about the history of the hill. If I hadnt of heard of winter hill or the race, I might never of looked into the various aspects of the hertigate and goings on of the hill.
5.) Peoples greater understanding and respect for not just winter hill, but possibly the natural/environmental things generally throughout the UK.

Im sure the list would be huge.

Negatives of the race to winter hill:
Erosion - The argument has absolutelyno leg to stand on surely unless they ban all foot traffic to runners, walkers and MTB's on the areas affectes.
Has ground nesting birds been mentioned? Surely they have a few more brain cells to not nest of a trod with mudclaw stud imprints in.
Some plants might get trodden on - im sure they will grow back. They dont have feelings, they dont contribute to the economy that is funding this enforcement and I bet they dont even appreciate that the races has been lost.

Blah blah blah. Its a bloody shame. Cheers to all who battled to save the race.

I went round the route today with training partner.
Great day for it! I am glad to see the trail of walshprints proves that use continues unabated.

There is completely inconsistent behaviour on the part of UU. The new fences contain styles at critical places, at least one which can only have been put there for the race route - nobody else goes on that part of the moor (top of the descent east to the coppice) - or put another way, I have never seen anyone on that side of the moor other than the main tracks in 20 years of training there. A fortune have been spent on these fences to no apparent purpose, there are no animals grazing. They would cause a problem for deer virtue of barbed wire on top, generally or presumably put there for humans when there is absolutely possibility that damage is being done to the moor by humans. It is not the kind of place, other than fellrunners would want to go. In the main the fences are total waste of my money as a taxpayer, and a UU utilities subscriber.

They do not even keep to their own rhetoric: they seemingly could not care less about damage to the moorland - done by THEM!!

In several areas, take the northern tussock plateau south of the belmont rivington road, there are a large number of relatively recent tyre tracks from large wheeled vehicles presumably used for land "management" which have done more damage in 10 journeys than the race has done in the last 10 years. So much for caring about preservation or destruction of hapbit! the tyres must be two feet wide. Yet there is no evidence of building, irrigation, dropping of materials, so the journeys were completely unnecessary.

[detritus21]

The irony of it is much of what we know as winter hill isn't natural in terms of the land lie. Only very small areas of Winter Hill haven't been ravaged by industry at some point in the not too distant history. The water catchment conduits used by UU have caused damage to the moorland. The real reality is UU don;t want anyone on the land. The open access rights will be lost next and everyone will be confined to footpaths. Its a shame as Winter Hill and Belmont are two of my favorate races.

Wonder how much trouble you'd get into if you did a mass fellrun a bit like the mass tresspass on Kinder that started national parks off. You'd probably be ushered into police vans and escorted away for aggravated tresspass.

[IWCharters]

The irony of it is much of what we know as winter hill isn't natural in terms of the land lie. Only very small areas of Winter Hill haven't been ravaged by industry at some point in the not too distant history. The water catchment conduits used by UU have caused damage to the moorland. The real reality is UU don;t want anyone on the land. The open access rights will be lost next and everyone will be confined to footpaths. Its a shame as Winter Hill and Belmont are two of my favorate races.

Wonder how much trouble you'd get into if you did a mass fellrun a bit like the mass tresspass on Kinder that started national parks off. You'd probably be ushered into police vans and escorted away for aggravated tresspass.

Winter Hill has been the scene of a mass trespass previously and before the better known trespass on Kinder, see here for some details.