Ukip

[IainR]

You will note that I didn't vote for them because without Farage, they are nothing. They didn't get a seat in my council (Trafford) and I think that they're style over substance, notwithstanding the allegations made against a number of their members.

However......I'm still not a massive fan of the EU and believe they get much more from us than we get from them. I've never cared much for the immigration argument as it's never been an issue for me but from an economic standpoint, we have the EU overruling our national Government which doesn't sit well with me.

In Brussels they look at London, the financial capital of the world, with jealousy and want to destroy it by imposing a financial transactions tax and layer after layer of regulation. Brussels itself has just become an expensive, bureaucratic behemoth and Germany exerts far too much influence over the rest of Europe (sound familiar?)

The Euro should never have happened or if it did, it should have consisted of the UK, Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden and Benelux with a Euro 2 for the Southern European States - this would have allowed them to remain competitive. As it stands, the economies are too different and it's consigned the likes of Greece, Cyprus, Spain & Portugal to decades of austerity. The best thing that ever happened to this country was John Major getting us a legal opt out of the Euro at Maastricht.

If UKIPs 15 minutes of fame makes the mainstream parties sit up and realise that they need to re-evaluate things then I don't see that as a bad thing - you've even said so yourself. Voter apathy is at an all time high and we don't know what each party really stands for - what is its 'Why?'

I'm not even advocating leaving the EU (although I wouldn't be upset if they did) but something needs to change. Thankfully, Cameron and Hollande have called for exactly that today so it looks like we could see an improved deal in the not too distant future.

So no wind up... I can't see myself ever voting for UKIP but if it makes the Tories take positive action then that's a good thing. UKIP will bomb at the general election and will be lucky to get more than one MP voted into parliament. The FPTP system has it's faults but it generally delivers a moderate government.

You are right.. I can see very valid arguments for leaving the EU. I think we'd be up shit creak, but i can see why there is support and a lot of that is the EU's doing...

And I dont think UKIP politician/supporter = racist/xenophobe.. That's discrediting them.

What I don't like is their excuses... Farage is on a personal crusade to get the UK out of the EU and will take any support.. the plant pot defence of the Nazi salute... Taking in people with known NF backgrounds.. They have taken support of the BNP. The party does attract those with racist/xenophobic/homophobic attitudes and if Farage was much stronger and stricter on who the party let in I'd give them more credit.

But I think he's on a personal crusade, and he says it himself, once he's done it he's leaving politics.. and he'll leave behind a dangerous vacuum with many pretty horrid people trying to get the power.

[shaunaneto]

To be perfectly honest. I wouldnt vote UKIP for their LGBT rights record alone. The EU and immigration stance wouldn't be required.

I'd quote from this article, but there's too much to choose from. Assuming its true.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...-wants-7134800
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/05/06...child-abusers/

Admittedly, there are some pretty unpleasant people other parties too. But UKIP do a good job of finding some of the more wayward individuals.

[Witton Park]

You are right.. I can see very valid arguments for leaving the EU. I think we'd be up shit creak, but i can see why there is support and a lot of that is the EU's doing...

And I dont think UKIP politician/supporter = racist/xenophobe.. That's discrediting them.

What I don't like is their excuses... Farage is on a personal crusade to get the UK out of the EU and will take any support.. the plant pot defence of the Nazi salute... Taking in people with known NF backgrounds.. They have taken support of the BNP. The party does attract those with racist/xenophobic/homophobic attitudes and if Farage was much stronger and stricter on who the party let in I'd give them more credit.

But I think he's on a personal crusade, and he says it himself, once he's done it he's leaving politics.. and he'll leave behind a dangerous vacuum with many pretty horrid people trying to get the power.

I think Heathens sums up exactly the way I feel better than I can do myself and I think your response here Iain is the sort of measured response that I expect in such a debate rather than the rantings of some.

But I think all the parties take support from wherever they can get it.
Tories, Labour and LibDem have members in elected positions who have said or done:-

Placing a picture of a gorilla next to that of an Asian Colleague
Fraudulently claimed benefits
Said that gypsies would stick a knife in you as soon as look at you
Been found guilty of electoral fraud
called gay people sexual deviants
5 members of Council group resigned citing racism
said British women should walk naked in the street to make Muslim men commit suicide
suggested a colleague approved funding to scouts for sexual reasons and kept a gimp in the cellar
said only good looking women should be given safe seats
the influx of Roma could lead to race riots in Britain
the 2011 riots were the best thing that’s happened in Tottenham for a while
claimed to be a barrister, but weren't
found guilty of racially aggravated assault
found guilty of three counts of arson, one of causing an explosion likely to endanger life and another of possessing explosives with intent to endanger life

So criticise UKIP by all means, but in the interests of balance the other 3 parties all have a lot of loonies, cranks and criminals in their ranks and take funding from dodgy sources.

[Hank]

I just can't get over the fact Farage is an annoying twat, his party is largely populated by odious, bigoted morons and as an organisation they would have absolutely no idea of what to do in power should UK voters be daft enough to let them anywhere near government.

Haven't had time to read the rest of the thread, apologies if this has been covered already.

[Graham Breeze]

I just can't get over the fact Farage is an annoying twat, his party is largely populated by odious, bigoted morons and as an organisation they would have absolutely no idea of what to do in power should UK voters be daft enough to let them anywhere near government.

That seems to adequately cover the bases, and in only 50 words.

[Wheeze]

I think people are getting into a lather about nothing. Come a General Election it is clear UKIP would be nowhere. We know it. They know it. So they have fulfilled their purpose which is to get the main parties focussed on the European question. This is an important point for many voters and the main parties seem a bit flaccid at present. This should sharpen their pencils for their manifesto's.

In the meantime UKIP can go on becoming the garbage bin for all undesirable right wingers so we know they are not poisoning the other parties.

[Derby Tup]

I've probably posted before that I'm not a fan of swear words on the forum and I'm well aware of the dichotomy associated (possibly regionally) with the severity of the 't word' (some people seem to use it as a synonym for fool or clown, while for others - my late mother included, it's far more offensive). However I agree with Graham that Hank has hit the nail on the head. It can't be more than five months until the clocks go back. Surely we're better off discussing headtorches than dreary old political matters

[Hank]

I've probably posted before that I'm not a fan of swear words on the forum and I'm well aware of the dichotomy associated (possibly regionally) with the severity of the 't word' (some people seem to use it as a synonym for fool or clown, while for others - my late mother included, it's far more offensive). However I agree with Graham that Hank has hit the nail on the head. It can't be more than five months until the clocks go back. Surely we're better off discussing headtorches than dreary old political matters

No offence intended. Clown or fool would have been more than adequate.

Digressing completely, I suppose the aforementioned 't word' would be considered by many as a misogynistic term. Does it matter whether that was the original intention in my usage? Some would say not as it's just an example of a misogynistic term having been normalised and embedded in everyday language as part of a male dominated society. I heard a very interesting discussion the other day in the same vein about the use of the term hysteria. Makes you think. Well, made me think anyway. Should probably stop dropping the t-bomb really.

[Witton Park]

It never ceases to amaze me how people complain about the topic of a thread and then comment. You want a head torch discussion, go and have one.

I started this thread partly wondering what the reaction would be. In the UK we have spent the last 20+ years treading on egg-shells with the thought police around every corner. It seems they are alive and well on the forum.

[dominion]

I've probably posted before that I'm not a fan of swear words on the forum and I'm well aware of the dichotomy associated (possibly regionally) with the severity of the 't word' (some people seem to use it as a synonym for fool or clown, while for others - my late mother included, it's far more offensive). However I agree with Graham that Hank has hit the nail on the head. It can't be more than five months until the clocks go back. Surely we're better off discussing headtorches than dreary old political matters

If we leave the EU will the price of my next French Petzl head torch go up?