Borrowdale Fell Race

[CharlieW]

I'm doing this for the first time this year, so I'm back to my old flatlander tricks of running up and down car park stairwells etc. If any old hands can indulge me, I have a few newbie questions:

1. The instructions say we go out through Chapel Farm, but that's not on the OS map. I guess it's the building on the map at about 257140 (could be Chapel _House_ Farm from a postcode search) and that we just run down the B5289 and turn off on the Stonethwaite road to get there?
2. If it's a hot day, I'm thinking about water. I've walked the corridor route a few times with family but can't remember now -- are the becks crossing it full enough that you'd want to fill a bottle from them? If so they look like the best bet. (I use sterilising tablets anyway.)
3. When I did my BGR I remember parts of the path from Grey Knotts down to Honister Hause were really slippery, even in dry weather. Do people tend to take the path, or go more 'off piste'?
4. I spotted the 2010 route on mapmyrun, but if anyone has a recent GPS track from the race they were pleased with and willing to share, I'd be really grateful to take a look at it.
5. How do the checkpoints work -- does someone just note your number as you pass?
6. And so to more important matters :-) What's it like in terms of entertainments/food & drink back at the hotel? In particular if my family decide to hang around for the 3-4 hrs it takes me to run, will they have anything to do/eat? (I guess the hotel will do bar meals anyway.) (I know there may be an evening party, but we'll be long gone for that.)
7. [Edit] How much emergency food is considered enough; e.g. 2xSnickers bars would be 500+ kcal, would they pass a kit check?

Thanks in advance for any tips. I'm utterly looking forward to it!

[Huw]

1. The instructions say we go out through Chapel Farm, but that's not on the OS map. I guess it's the building on the map at about 257140...

That's the farm. From Rosthwaite cross the river, follow the Cumbria way, cross Stonethwaite bridge, turn right, head down the road and turn right into the farm (usually few spectators on the corner cheering you on.)

2. If it's a hot day, I'm thinking about water. I've walked the corridor route a few times with family but can't remember now -- are the becks crossing it full enough that you'd want to fill a bottle from them? If so they look like the best bet.

Best water on the mountain is at calf cove 227 080, always running. Corridor route streams are very dry at the moment and can't be relied on. Even the 'reliable' stream 219 080 was dry yesterday.


3. When I did my BGR I remember parts of the path from Grey Knotts down to Honister Hause were really slippery, even in dry weather. Do people tend to take the path, or go more 'off piste'?

Off piste. Various routes - right of Brandreth,left of Grey Knotts, Moses trod? Follow the fence line? Seen em all done.

5. How do the checkpoints work -- does someone just note your number as you pass?
Yes.

6. And so to more important matters :-) What's it like in terms of entertainments/food & drink back at the hotel? In particular if my family decide to hang around for the 3-4 hrs it takes me to run, will they have anything to do/eat? (I guess the hotel will do bar meals anyway.) (I know there may be an evening party, but we'll be long gone for that.)

Various options = They could always walk to Styhead with water, food etc for you and join the rest of the Borrowdale supporters? Then again, if you're a 3hr man they probably won't have time.
some of my lot head into Keswick for a late breakfast then up to Honister to see me through and back to the field to see me finish. No better place in the world on a sunny day.


7. How much emergency food is considered enough; e.g. 2xSnickers bars would be 500+ kcal, would they pass a kit check?

In an emergency would it be enough for you mores the point.

[DJM]

I followed the track from http://www.gpsies.com/map.do?fileId=...rrer=trackList and it seemed pretty accurate in my recce on a sunny day

[CharlieW]

Thanks very much Huw & DJM, that's all really useful. I'd missed the phrase "via Stonethwaite" in the instructions! ("and turn right into the farm" -- left I'm sure, get it now anyway, thanks). Food-wise, yes I'll start well fed on the day, and I think that kind of quantity would help keep me going for a good while if I got into trouble somewhere hard to find. But I didn't know what kind of quantity was expected as the norm.

As for 3 or 4 hours... actually I've got little idea how long it's going to take me, which is maybe a good reason for the family to head on to Keswick where we're staying rather than waiting for me. I'm pretty fit now but will be picking my way across the boulder fields and down the tricky descents in true 'southern wuss' style while you local experts leave me for dead... and as you can see, I don't know the most canny routes. But it's going to be a hell of an experience!

[alwaysinjured]

Thanks very much Huw & DJM, that's all really useful. I'd missed the phrase "via Stonethwaite" in the instructions! ("and turn right into the farm" -- left I'm sure, get it now anyway, thanks). Food-wise, yes I'll start well fed on the day, and I think that kind of quantity would help keep me going for a good while if I got into trouble somewhere hard to find. But I didn't know what kind of quantity was expected as the norm.

As for 3 or 4 hours... actually I've got little idea how long it's going to take me, which is maybe a good reason for the family to head on to Keswick where we're staying rather than waiting for me. I'm pretty fit now but will be picking my way across the boulder fields and down the tricky descents in true 'southern wuss' style while you local experts leave me for dead... and as you can see, I don't know the most canny routes. But it's going to be a hell of an experience!

The only real technical bits on borrowdale (other than boulder hopping around broad crag) is the scree descent from scafell pike, (alternatives considerably longer) . Also getting a good line off great gable (faint trod at about 67 degrees or so after leaving main path) , leads to traverse back to wind gap is quicker by a couple of minutes than the normal scrambly route direct to green gable. Can knock off a few seconds /easier running going on grass to the side of the corridor here and there. Navigation can be an issue in clag from great gable to honister because by that time the field has thinned out, seen people going towards base brown...but having done the BG you know a route.

Mind you...last time I did it there was quite an impressive pool of blood on some stones coming down the gulley to borrowdale down from dale head! So proves you cannot let concentration falter - don't know the story behind it!

[No map, no compass]

As for 3 or 4 hours... actually I've got little idea how long it's going to take me

Maybe you should be thinking more like 4 to 5 hours.

[alwaysinjured]

Maybe you should be thinking more like 4 to 5 hours.

Charlies's a 2.40 marathoner or thereabouts, and there's a fair amount of running on borrowdale. So trying to break 4 sounds a sensible target to me. All he has to do, is look at the climb up to great gable and think "this looks like a car park staircase!!!"

I heard billy grumbling once, that the made up paths have made it easier, (and that people say it was perfect conditions when he broke the record. Well it wasnt he said, "it was 'ot!").

Makes for an interesting question, the correlation between top fell runners and their marathon times. Kenny stuart, was the one who actually went to see how well he could do, with world class marathon time (for the era) but was also a supreme climber. Still? holder of the snowdon record?

Seem to remember Kinchy, (when fell champion) doing a local half marathon near me in about 65. Just under?

Billy's PB (I think) was the same as CharlieW, 2.3x? but I doubt he ever made it much of a goal to improve it!
Saz was a 2.27/8 marathoner, much later borrowdale best 3.15?

Apologies to any where I got it hopelessly wrong!

[Wheeze]

Charlie...Snickers are hopeless! Unless you like scooping a choclatey mess into your chops!! Make sure you carry non-meltable high energy food.
I have a personal grudge against energy gels because so many of my wonderful fellow runners think its perfectly ok to toss the empty packets onto the ground.......... so have a think about it. After years of trying various things, what works for me is flapjack or granola.

And take enough for YOU not just to satisfy a kit check. Remember you are responsible for you. Not the RO.
Water is a tough one. Personally, if you are going to be out a long time, I'd invest in one of the many different types of carrying systems. Some of the designs are clever and don't impede running. Check out the various manufacturers websites. On a big race like this, learning the balance between minimalism and self sufficiency is all part of the fun. If you lived in the lakes, you could take a chance with knowing where to find sweet ground water. As you don't, I suggest you carry your own. That way, you can concentrate on getting round and enjoying yourself!

[CharlieW]

I'm totally with you on the engergy gel wrappers left out and about, Wheeze -- they make me angry too. I may well use some gels as planned nutrition (as opposed to emergency food), as I can stomach them while working hard, but the wrappers will stay with me. On the food quantity, I'm happy to take what I think is enough, but if the RO thinks I should have more then I don't want to be caught out!

Water-wise, I do long training runs (often 26M in marathon training) after just a cup of coffee at home, but during the winter/spring. If it's a sweltering summer day I'll certainly be glad of some water, but was hoping to just carry an empty bottle pre-dosed with a sterilising tablet to fill if I felt like it.

alwaysinjured -- "this looks like a car park staircase!!!" You got me! And quite right, I scraped a sub-2:40 in London again this year by seconds, though I won't be in quite that form for Borrowdale. But as well as being low on the skills to hop across/down rocks, I'm probably not be such a strong climber -- some of the figures quoted for getting up Yewbarrow on the BGR thread sounded a lot quicker than I could do.

[stumpy]

Charlie - just sent you a couple of PMs with some route tips gathered from others a few years ago which came in useful for me.

As a fellow soft southerner, my only advice would be to set off nice and steady and try and save a bit for the ascent of Dale Head, and even more importantly, the descent back down through the quarry - it's is very steep and very hard when tired!! It's all to easy to get carried away in the cavalry charge along the lane at the start. Set out with the aim of enjoying it and you will probably do a better time than if you try to race it!

Last time I did it my kids and Mrs managed to entertain themselves by heading up to Honister Pass. It's a good place for them to come and see you as they will be able to get back to Rosthwaite in time (unless you are super quick!). Pretty miserable for them if its pelting down mind, in which case the Keswick pencil museum might be the thing
Oh, and one last tip - the cheese sarny and cup of tea in the Rosthwaite Institute after the race will be the best thing you have ever eaten