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Thread: Trackers 20/21

  1. #11
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    Interesting points. I understand what you are saying about the challenge and the contenders effort. All very valid. I also understand the idea of using gps tracks not being in the spirit. I guess it's a sense of personal ethics. I know on my summer round (where I was heavily supported and just followed my excellent navigators) I felt that I somehow hadn't quite done it properly since it just became me and my physical/mental ability versus the round rather than it being a test of my mountaincraft/fellrunning ability (navigation, route choice etc.). I find greater satisfaction navigating off local knowledge and compass bearings, although it is nice to have a gps track to hand as a second voice of reassurance - particularly in testing conditions).

  2. #12
    Senior Member Adnan Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ydt View Post
    "Following a GPS track would have been easier but not in the spirit.." Many things have changed and improved since Bob Graham completed the ROUND: the footware, the clothes and other gear, the quality of the paths, the local knowledge possessed by the navigators. The only thing that always stays constant is the amount of effort required from the contender to cover the distance and climb within 24 hours. Many (if not most) contenders rely on navigators for accurate route finding which can improve their chance of success. The method used by the navigator to find the best way, i.e. good local knowledge, skilful map reading or GPS navigation does not lessen the effort required by the contender to complete the challenge; it just helps prevent doing distance and climb over and above what is required. A GPS track is nothing more than a map track, it is just easier to follow, especially in bad conditions. Events where navigation skills are an essential part of the challenge, are quite different from the BGR and use of GPS in those would be cheating.
    +1

    I am not from fell running or scout background only did the basic map reading course couple of years ago and managed to find my way around the few MMs, obviously not taking the perfect lines and mainly direct lines from CP to CP and overshooting most of the times. I am still learning

    However I now know the BGR route off my head and if someone asks me to navigate I would carry a GPS as a backup than a map/compass because I am more confident with it

    _|_
    ./\.

  3. #13
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Personally (and with a club hat almost on) I've no problem with the use of GPS. It's a tool, nothing more. It shouldn't be a substitute for knowing where you are and if the proverbial hits the fan being able to get yourself and the rest of the party off the hill in a safe manner. Not everyone has the benefit of many years' walking and running in the Lakes to build up a bank of personal knowledge.

    At least with a GPS it is within the party and doesn't affect others whereas large support parties increase erosion on the route and have knock on effects for those that follow.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  4. #14
    Master ydt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Personally (and with a club hat almost on) I've no problem with the use of GPS. It's a tool, nothing more. It shouldn't be a substitute for knowing where you are and if the proverbial hits the fan being able to get yourself and the rest of the party off the hill in a safe manner. Not everyone has the benefit of many years' walking and running in the Lakes to build up a bank of personal knowledge.

    At least with a GPS it is within the party and doesn't affect others whereas large support parties increase erosion on the route and have knock on effects for those that follow.
    ...and if the proverbial hits the fan being able to get yourself and the rest of the party off the hill.. It goes without saying Bob.

  5. #15
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    GPS is as said just a tool and and damned good one at that, in all honesty a map and compass are also only tools but they are all useless unless you have the knowledge to use them and that also applies to the GPS.

    I wonder how many PURIST photographers that poured scorn on Digital cameras are now using them as a first choice tool, I bet it will be the majority.
    The same will happen with GPS it will naturally become the tool of choice and will greatly assist folk in pursuit of there interests
    The older I get the Faster I was

  6. #16
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    Interesting post John
    Poacher turned game-keeper

  7. #17
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    Interesting comments and I guess I started some of it off as I was the lad from Keighley (see page 1) who just about made it furthest on the attempts last weekend in that little bit of drizzle and a touch of wind.

    Personally, I see them as a complimentary tool to a map and compass, so I will almost always take both. On my attempted round Friday night, I had hoped not to use it but as my leg 3 support did not have as much navigation skills as I really needed and with losing so much time due to appalling weather, I used it as quicker way of keeping moving for me.

    Having said that, it was an experience following Bobster who kindly navigated for me on Leg 2 having contacted me via this forum despite not knowing him. In pitch black, thick clag, driving rain in face and into very strong headwinds, he was just nailing summit after summit off his navigational skills and bearings. It was quicker than off a GPS as sometimes if you are too slow with a GPS then you lose direction on it as only works properly if moving constantly.

    Interested to read some of the other support crew comments from last Friday nights experience. It makes me feel a lot better that I had to abandon at Scafell Pike as pleased I got so far. I was still feeling strong physically but at that point had spent 16 hours with every single second raining along with high winds. We had positive weather report at Dunmail so left in good spirits having been told that improving from 5am onwards quite significantly. How wrong that was?

    When myself and my two support all actually got blown over in same split second whilst on Broad Crag summit, decided enough was enough as already lost a lot of time. The single gust that hit us was way higher than anything previously and suddenly we were all on floor and given that dangerous boulder field, a broken leg after slip between rocks would have been dangerous situation. It was hard just getting off and shame that we picked the worst weather window in many weeks.

    Just waiting for the right moment to broach subject with missus to get a new date.

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