post brexit

[Muddy Retriever]

So it'll be a tough ask but the brexiteers mustn't stop at brexit. We've got to demand less/minimum government and more control over our own lives. If we don't then what's the point. We may as well have remained with the 'scale musketeers.'

But Christopher, we voted for the restoration of British sovereignty and democracy. That means accepting we get what we vote for. If we elect a Labour Government and they make a mess of the economy as usual then so be it. We have the option of ejecting them from Government after five years. That's much better than the current state of affairs where we are subject to unelected EU commissioners and the European Court of Justice.

[shaunaneto]

To those Scots wanting to leave: "once in a generation"; you've had your chance.
Pretty much the same as those wanting another referendum on the UK staying in the EU.

That's pretty much the view of the majority in Scotland as far as I can tell. However to those that want independence it doesn't matter and however many attempts it takes is acceptable. And to a degree that's the audience the pro independence parties are playing too.

As mentioned above, anyone outside of the Scottish electorate is an irrelevance. Your perceptions and opinions aren't factors regardless of how logical or pragmatic.

[CL]

But Christopher, we voted for the restoration of British sovereignty and democracy. That means accepting we get what we vote for. If we elect a Labour Government and they make a mess of the economy as usual then so be it. We have the option of ejecting them from Government after five years. That's much better than the current state of affairs where we are subject to unelected EU commissioners and the European Court of Justice.

I know. It'll be an improvement in that respect. I just hope this country doesn't elect meddlers worse than Brussels.

[Muddy Retriever]

I know. It'll be an improvement in that respect. I just hope this country doesn't elect meddlers worse than Brussels.

It's always a risk Chris, But the point is that it is always reversible unlike remaining in the EU. Leave were able to build a broad coalition on the basis of parliamentary sovereignty, e.g. Labour figures like Gisela Stewart. Had Tony Benn been alive he would have been firmly in the Leave camp. He famously said that he would rather have a bad parliament than a good king. We prosper or decline by our own decisions. That is how it should be.

[Wheeze]

But Christopher, we voted for the restoration of British sovereignty and democracy. That means accepting we get what we vote for. If we elect a Labour Government and they make a mess of the economy as usual then so be it. We have the option of ejecting them from Government after five years. That's much better than the current state of affairs where we are subject to unelected EU commissioners and the European Court of Justice.

That cuts through all the bluster very nicely.Good,nonemotive summary of the sensible reason for voting leave.

[DrPatrickBarry]

No Winners!
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...orce-1.2942916

[Witton Park]

As a leave supporter in the EU referendum and seeing the full weight of project fear from the British Establishment I am a little more sympathetic to the SNP's economic case than I was in 2014. But isn't there just a teensy weensy flaw in Nicola Sturgeon's argument?

According to her if Britain leaves the single market it will be hugely damaging to the Scottish economy and cost lots of jobs. I would question that but ok I can see why some people would make the argument. But according to the Scottish Government's own figures, Scotland exports 64.4% to the rest of the UK, 20.2% to the rest of the world and only 15.4% to the EU. So how does becoming independent from the UK, joining the EU and thereby not being a member of the UK's single market make sense?

They went through the figures today on the Daily Politics. It was around £45B Scottish exports to rest of UK and only £10B to EU per annum on latest figures for 2015, although new ones are due out anytime soon for 2016.

[luxinterior]

They went through the figures today on the Daily Politics. It was around £45B Scottish exports to rest of UK and only £10B to EU per annum on latest figures for 2015, although new ones are due out anytime soon for 2016.

what isn't clear to me is it up to SNP if they want to hold a referendum or do they need Westminster to agree?

Also presumably if they leave the UK after Article 50 they are out of the EU same as rest of UK? Can't fathom the scottish independance and even if they can do it how they will not be even worse off?

[shaunaneto]

what isn't clear to me is it up to SNP if they want to hold a referendum or do they need Westminster to agree?

It's granted by Westminster. But... in practice they theoretically could hold one without Westminster approval and UDI, assuming the result carried enough credibility/majority to gain acceptance internationally. Which in turn would apply international political force upon Westminster to accept the result. You don't necessarily need the approval of the controlling entity to achieve the goal. And there's a fair few that hold this as an acceptable route. There's also a fair few who don't.

Also presumably if they leave the UK after Article 50 they are out of the EU same as rest of UK? Can't fathom the scottish independance and even if they can do it how they will not be even worse off?

What's to fathom? there's enough of a difference (real and perceived)in culture, both social and political that a significant chunk of the Scottish Electorate don't want to follow the same path as the rest of the UK. And for many in that chunk short and medium term impoverishment is a price worth paying to be able to choose their own way. They consider themselves Scots not Brits and have no real attachment to the Union. Neither do I to be fair.

[Witton Park]

what isn't clear to me is it up to SNP if they want to hold a referendum or do they need Westminster to agree?

Also presumably if they leave the UK after Article 50 they are out of the EU same as rest of UK? Can't fathom the scottish independance and even if they can do it how they will not be even worse off?

They need the permission on Westminster. They have stated that they may hold one without an Act of Parliament, but then that definitely wouldn't be binding, but it would create a real constitutional difficulty, but that was always going to be the case when we set up 3 assemblies for the Celtic nations, all with differing powers and nothing for England.