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  1. #91
    Member duncz's Avatar
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    The referendum was only to appease the nazi tories. It was won by lies by a gang of quitters.The MP's should not accept the result and vote against it.
    Hopefully Labour can sort it's self out. You must have a strong opposition in goverment.

  2. #92
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duncz View Post
    The referendum was only to appease the nazi tories. It was won by lies by a gang of quitters.The MP's should not accept the result and vote against it.
    Hopefully Labour can sort it's self out. You must have a strong opposition in goverment.
    This is just the sort of crap that Farage wouldn't even stoop to.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  3. #93
    Member duncz's Avatar
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    You may think it's crap but the Tories have always been anti EU

  4. #94
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duncz View Post
    You may think it's crap but the Tories have always been anti EU
    I was refering to "Nazi Tories" not about anti-EU.

    I don't know what your political background is but Ted Heath took us in to the EEC.

    Labour had concerns over membership and set up the 1975 referendum. They had concerns about the higher price of food due to CAP, possible loss of economic sovereignty, lack of freedom to set own industrial policy.

    In the 1975 referendum the Labour Cabinet was split (ring any bells).

    The Labour Govt was supported by the new Tory leader Margaret Thatcher.

    Leavers back then were Tony Benn, Peter Shore, Barbara Castle who you may well compare to Johnson, Gove and IDS now.
    The Leavers were supported by the UUP Enoch Powell, the SNP, The National Front and the Communists.

    So NOT Tories back then, although as with all such matters, there were a few outriders.

    In 1975 the Leave campaign was lead by Labour Government ministers.

    It was only around the time of Maastricht that Tory Euroscepticism started to gain any traction.

    Labour, under Kinnock, had only just changed it's 80s policy of withdrawal and more recently the Labour leader has voted against EU measures almost without fail and his conversion for the referendum seems to have been half-hearted.

    So your wrong on the Tories being anti-EU. Traditionally they haven't been and even in the current referendum, around 3/4 of the PLP were for Remain.

    You're wrong and irresponsible for using the term Nazi Tories. We are very lucky in this country that we do not have extremist political parties anywhere near a position of influence.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  5. #95
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witton Park View Post
    Labour, under Kinnock, had only just changed it's 80s policy of withdrawal and more recently the Labour leader has voted against EU measures almost without fail and his conversion for the referendum seems to have been half-hearted.
    Although he became markedly more enthusiastic when he was appointed to be a European Commissioner and joined the gravy train!

  6. #96
    Member duncz's Avatar
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    OK maybe the term nazi was to strong but the far right and the unknown backers behind them caused the referendum. We have been part of europe for 40 years and most of the we have been negative instead of working with them. The press have not helped straight bananas etc. I live in Liverpool and it has been transformed with help from the EU.Other cities in the north have also benefitted. Sheffield is line for grants which now be in doubt. I don't think the North will see much the £350m. London and the south east will get the lion share as usual.

  7. #97
    Master Wheeze's Avatar
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    Not true.
    As WP mentions, Edward Heath was passionately pro-EU and battled hard to get us in. John Major held the line against major rebellion in his own party against the Maastrict Treaty. Both these characters are as far from Nazi's as you could imagine.
    The referendum was a gamble by Cameron to achieve majority at the last election. It has backfired on him but who would have given that odds.
    You are right about negative press but these were above the line examples of many similar things happening below the line...I know, I have had to deal with some of them.
    You are also right about EU funding. But if we no longer pour money in to get some (??all...who knows) back in grants and subsidies, maybe we will pay our own way for our own regeneration.
    Simon Blease
    Monmouth

  8. #98
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duncz View Post
    OK maybe the term nazi was to strong but the far right and the unknown backers behind them caused the referendum. We have been part of europe for 40 years and most of the we have been negative instead of working with them. The press have not helped straight bananas etc. I live in Liverpool and it has been transformed with help from the EU.Other cities in the north have also benefitted. Sheffield is line for grants which now be in doubt. I don't think the North will see much the £350m. London and the south east will get the lion share as usual.
    The Far Right?
    So Corbyn (he has never supported the EU), Kate Hoey, Gisela Stuart, John Mann, George Galloway? ASLEF and RMT Unions? Communist Party, Respect Party.
    What about Dennis Skinner - that famous, old, rabid right-wing firebrand

    What caused the referendum has been the rise of UKIP. So it's hardly unknown backers. It's the gradual cranking up of people power that culminated in UKIP winning 26.6% in the 2014 EU elections making it the biggest party.
    Many people don't like Farage. I understand why, but he has taken on the establishment and made both Labour and Tory party consider their policies.

    We have been part of Europe for millions of years and will continue to be so.
    You can like football without liking FIFA. You can like Europe and count yourself a European without liking the EU.

    Liverpool received Objective 1 status back in the early 90s. It's done Ok out of it. BUt even within Liverpool there were lots of horse-trading about hwo to use tthe funding and the original plan to use the money for a bridge over the Mersey to the Wirral hasn't happened.

    When you keep moving money around, the administrators always skim something off the top. So when it goes to the EU they take a %, then when it comes back, the application process goes through quangos, is often linked to matched funding and subject to meeting priorities of the granters of the funding.
    I would argue that development money should be managed by our Government and more efficiently.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  9. #99
    Member duncz's Avatar
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    Dennis Skinner and Frank Field have been very good hard working MP's but i think they where wrong to back the out vote. I couldn't trust a tory goverment to manage development money they will always look after the true blue heartlands. Thatcher want Liverpool and any other Northern cities and towns which where labour strongholds to go to the dogs. It was Hestletines intervention (the only tory i have any respect for.)who saved Liverpool.

  10. #100
    Master Muddy Retriever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duncz View Post
    Dennis Skinner and Frank Field have been very good hard working MP's but i think they where wrong to back the out vote.
    You could add Jeremy Corbyn to the list too. He has been against the EU ever since we joined but lacked the courage of his convictions when it came to it. To try and placate many of his MP's he had to pretend that he was in favour of remaining. Much good it has done him!

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