post brexit

[molehill]

Slightly off topic, here are some thoughts on Brexit and the impact on the outdoors from the BMC. Makes interesting reading whatever side you are on, though I cannot see a lot of positives.
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/brexit-eu-r...-natural-world

[Stagger]

Has anything changed in anyone's day to day life.
Unless your a political activist.
Accept democracy

[Travs]

Did I not see on the news yesterday that the British and German stock markets are looking to merge, and create the largest stock exchange in the world? Was voted in on our side, and the German financial powers-that-be are voting shortly...

My view has always been that countries will trade with the U.K. whether or not we are in the EU. Our economy is (currently) too big to just ignore.

For the record, I did not vote either way, as like Stagger posted above, I don't think it will have a massive effect either way on either the economy, or the day-to-day lives of most.

The company I work for does a lot of work in the construction industry in 'The City', and yes a number of potential projects have been put on hold, but the consensus seems to be that it is a case of waiting for the dust to settle, rather than pulling the plug on investment.

[CL]

You see there is the problem

You can’t provide one concrete positive but Mark Carney can provide one concrete negative

Ergo – Brexit is a bad plan!!!

You're only taking out what you want to. Misrepresenting Mark Carney's views to suit your own agenda.

Mark Carney was questioned by the select committee and he cited the consequences of both leaving and staying in the European union. At the time the 'prophets of doom' jumped on just his leave comments because it suited their agenda.

Now then why don't you tell us about what you think of Mervyn King's comments?

[CL]

I was hoping a vote out would stop Graham B and Derby Tup sniping but if anything they sound even more bitter - if less cockey - than they did before the vote.

Chaps you had the opportunity to put arguments across beforehand and you couldn't or didn't. So cut the sniping.

[Muddy Retriever]

I literally asked for the benefits to be backed up by credible opinions.


Being a disparate group is no excuse for not having a vision and strategy. I have one for my job, and I'd eventually be sacked if I operated without any idea of how to achieve my goals.

If anything Leave should have a confusing array of strategies.

Wheeze, it's a nice list. But it's just a wish list.

I disagree with your contention that there isn't a plan. The plan is to exit the EU with a mutually beneficial trade deal. The idea that those wanting to leave should be able to specify this deal down to the last nut and bolt is not realistic. We do not know what the negotiating position of the EU will be and until we do we can't react accordingly. But what can be said is that there are various options open to us.

What's for certain is that it is not in the interests of the EU to not have a trade deal when they export so much more to us than vice versa and when much of the eurozone is so precarious economically. E.g the state of the Italian banking system. Even in the absolute worst case scenario of relying on WTO membership, the tariff on most goods and services is relatively small - certainly less than the value that the Pound has already dropped, which increases British competitiveness.

Wheeze's list is much more than a wish list. For example take making our own trade deals. A number of countries that have no deal with the EU have already been making favourable noises in this direction.

We can add to the list coming out of the Common Fisheries Policy and coming out of the Common Agricultural Policy. With the latter, not only will we be able to buy food more cheaply from the rest of the world we can also feel good about ourselves that we are no longer discriminating against third world farmers.

[Witton Park]

In response to Noel's response to Wheeze

Border control back in our hands I get this, but I don't think it will help. Incidentally immigration is higher from non-EU countries currently!
The key is control. The current Government and the previous coalition didn't manage the non-EU element properly.
All future Governments will now have the option to manage immigration properly. They will be able to go to the electorate with an immigration policy. They will be able to adjust to the demands of our economy.
They will not be able to use the free movement as an excuse.
Membership fee saving I get this, but think this will be more than off-set by economic losses and lost tax income as a result of leave.
It may be lost in the whole budget, but it is important to note that now we will have more control. I actually think the payments to the EU were one of the minor distractions as in the scheme of things its the equivalent of an average household cancelling a pint of milk a day.
Preservation of democracy and sovereignty I get this and agree.
I'd actually say we are reclaiming democracy and sovereignty that we have previously ceded to the EU.
Opening up of global markets Good luck with that.
This is one of the key points in my mind.
The EU has negotiated very few trade deals of any note. They refer to 53 that are in place. Only around half of them are "free trade" deals.
These existing 53 deals list Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Andorra, Faroe Islands, Sam Marino....so they are over-egging the pudding a little.
South Korea is the most notable and is the 11th biggest economy in the world.
Not only is the EU poor at negotiating trade deals, but it also has a tendency to focus on areas of trade that are more favourable to the continent.
So having the freedom to negotiate on our own means we can make deals that suit us and our economy.
Noel - you say good luck with that, but we already have had approaches from several countries and assuming we go through the Brexit process by end 2018, we will already have worked out some trade deals ready for when we come out.
Take full advantage of position as 5th largest global economy Ditto
People want to trade with us. South American countries find it very difficult at the moment as do many of our Commonwealth colleagues.
I actually think opening up trade links with some of these countries will be more effective than our overseas aid budget.
Preservation of military freedom I get this, but don't agree we didn't have it anyway.
It was at risk. I watched a Romano Prodi interview the Friday after the referendum. He said it was a shame to lose the strongest armed force in the EU just as they were going to establish the EU defence force.
Only UK, Greece, Estonia and Poland of the EU nations in NATO, meet their 2% of GDP spend.
If they do set up an EU defence force, they will undoubtedly double count the spending and this will chip away at the standing of NATO.
The US accounts for about 75% of NATO spending and we keep being told about how the EU is now bigger than the USA in terms of GDP, so this is just unacceptable.
The EU nations need to pull their weight and they should do this within NATO.
I have to add though, that our armed forces have been run down. The discussion today around Chilcot makes it clear that we went in to Iraq with an under-resourced armed force.
Having an armed force can be put to a lot of positive benefit such as we saw with the Ebola outbreak and the Tsunami response a few years ago.
I would like to see our Navy in particular expanded and playing the role of humanitarian support as well as important logistical armed backup and used as a force for good around the world.

Reduction of restrictive legislation on business I get this. However, from my perspective the EU was the workers friend and a helpful counter to the excesses of less progressive UK governments
I'm not sure what you mean Noel - the workers friend?
Since we joined the EU I have seen:
A watering down of the guaranteed payments system for workers on short-term lay-off.
An increase in part-time working and zero hours contracts.
A decrease in the premium rates paid for working unsociable hours.
An increase in weekend and unsociable hours working.
A more difficult regime for workers to challenge employers.
In many countries in the EU, unemployment is extremely high and the Euro is stifling the ability of any nation to devalue out of the problem, forcing extreme austerity on the countries, whilst many in Northern Europe thrive with a Euro that should be higher for them.
In terms of legislation, simple things such as an EC Sales List that I as a one man band have to fill in for every sale I make to an EU VAT registered business. It is actually more onerous for me to sell to an Italian company than a Malaysian one.
We go above and beyond EU legislation.
Self determination of legal and financial management From what I understand, legal is a separate issue, not directly related to our membership of the EU. I agree our financial markets could be unshackled by less restrictive UK governance. I'm not sure if this would be a good thing.
It's not so much less restrictive Noel, but it is legislation that works within our legal system. Our common law system works differently to the European civil law systems.
One of the main reasons put forward for the UK attracting investment in to the EU has been the legal system as the Commonwealth and the USA are almost all based on the same legal system and they have a distinct mistrust of the European systems.
Reduction of internal security risks. I get this and agree
I agree, but think it is marginal.

[CL]

One of the hopes for me of coming out of the union was a reversal of the influence of the 'progressive Liberals' in our everyday life. The 2015 general election saw them almost finished as a political party but their power and hopes continued with the European Union. Now that has gone their only hope is to exist as aliens in other parties, diluting the essence of what those parties once stood for.

Yes the damage done to the moral fibre of the country by the Liberals in incalculable. Their progressive policies have rewarded the feckless and punished the virtuous. They have no concept of justice, right or wrong, all they pander to is the beneficiaries of their policies without any consideration for the victims.

So I now hope that this is the start of something better, but with the Liberals still prowling around and corrupting our political and social life who knows.

[shaunaneto]

The plan is to exit the EU with a mutually beneficial trade deal.

That's not a plan, it's a goal.

The idea that those wanting to leave should be able to specify this deal down to the last nut and bolt is not realistic

Not on a Joe Public individual basis. But I've yet to see anything resembling strategy and tactics about how to achieve the stated goal from those at the leading edge. Even taking into account the need to keep cards close to the chest before negotiations begin.

Wheeze's list is much more than a wish list. For example take making our own trade deals. A number of countries that have no deal with the EU have already been making favourable noises in this direction.

It still a wish list if there's no plan being implemented to achieve it.

I think it was South Korea first through the door?!

Common Agricultural Policy. With the latter, not only will we be able to buy food more cheaply from the rest of the world we can also feel good about ourselves that we are no longer discriminating against third world farmers.

Now this could be a good thing, I won't hold my breath for the UK giving them a good deal.

[shaunaneto]

Yes the damage done to the moral fibre of the country by the Liberals in incalculable. Their progressive policies have rewarded the feckless and punished the virtuous. They have no concept of justice, right or wrong, all they pander to is the beneficiaries of their policies without any consideration for the victims.

You don't set people free by enslaving them to the state