English Champs A Long

[noel]

So is the whole of the higher bits of the peak a "no go" for new fell races?

Surely there are possibilities with some concerted effort from the right people. Kinder is quite a large area, and loads of it is either access land or has well established paths on it.

[ba-ba]

If it's not a stupid question...
Why does an English Champs race have to be in England? Why not use a Welsh or Scottish race?

Well there was a race on the Isle of Man last year which isn't part of England, although Manx fell runners still count in English champs.

[Stabbsy]

It would be great to get more A cat races outside of the lakes but it's not easy. IMHO the Howgills probably has the steepness and height required. I doubt Barbondale and Middleton fell is feasible either.

Out of interest, did you think Middleton Fell would be unfeasible from a height gain perspective or access issues? As for Pendle, it might require a slightly contrived route, but 3 ascents of Calf Top/Castle Knott from different directions gives about 1200m of ascent.

Where the possible routes are in areas where access is difficult, are landowners concerned about access in general or regular, large-scale access creating trods? Could we mitigate landowner concerns by running some of these races purely as championship races every, say, 5 years as required?

[anthonykay]

So is the whole of the higher bits of the peak a "no go" for new fell races?

Surely there are possibilities with some concerted effort from the right people. Kinder is quite a large area, and loads of it is either access land or has well established paths on it.

Surely the real problem with the higher bits of the Peak District is that they are so flat on top? So if we want an AL in the Peak, it will just have to be 10 reps up and down Shutlingsloe: you can organise that, Noel

[IanDarkpeak]

So is the whole of the higher bits of the peak a "no go" for new fell races?

Surely there are possibilities with some concerted effort from the right people. Kinder is quite a large area, and loads of it is either access land or has well established paths on it.

you can go up to the rim path but not beyond. they are trying to get the reseeding to consolidate...if you believe that?

Last time I was up there in was thigh deep in grass in some places, I'll be up there on Sunday so if I don't come back I've got lost in the thick grass

[noel]

you can go up to the rim path but not beyond. they are trying to get the reseeding to consolidate...if you believe that?

Last time I was up there in was thigh deep in grass in some places, I'll be up there on Sunday so if I don't come back I've got lost in the thick grass

OK then. Picture this... no go and program this into your tracklogs like I just have.

Start: Hayfield somewhere
CP1 Kinderlow End 068865
CP2 Somewhere near the East end of the reservoir (eg, 067883)
CP3 066899 (avoiding the top of Kinder)
CP4 Higher Shelf Stone trig 088947
CP5 Lordship Hill 064938
CP6 Mill Hill 061904
Back to start

So that's probably totally inappropriate for a number of reasons that I can't tell from looking at a map. But in general terms: up-down-up Kinder, then over a shoulder of Kinder (to avoid the top), then up-down something the other side of Kinder, then back again would be an AL.

[JamieP]

I have just been looking at a map of Dartmoor. There are some deeply incised valleys, and an AL course might just be possibly if it kept on going into and out of them, but you would probably end up with a rather artificial route.

I don't think it would actually have to be too artificial. Something like this would just about sneak over the 50m climb/km, and Okehampton camp could make a good spot for parking/registration (albeit without a pub...).

Whether everyone fancies the drive to Devon is another matter!

[Witton Park]

The first thing you need to look at when you put a race on is HQ / Venue. There's lots of possibilities for routes up the Pennines and in some of the offshoots like the Howgills, perhaps the Cheviots.
But when you have 500 runners, plus spectators marshalls etc you need some facilities.

Then you need to consider permissions. Bowland, West Pennines around Winter Hill are certainly areas I know where you can just forget it.

Wear and tear as well. As has been indicated some races on Pendle have been re-routed to allow recovery and Barley is just ram-jam packed even on no race weekends. Whilst there are other villages that could act as a base for a smaller event, they would struggle with a National Champs.

ROs and team. Most with an inclination to host are already doing it. Many of the marshalls and officials out there are the same ones that have been doing it for years.
Odds on that if a new race is put on, it will be by an RO that is already doing his/her bit and manned by marshalls and officials that are.

Whilst there is a lot to be said for the positives of more runners carrying on now to V60/70 and beyond, it is reducing the number that come through to the event side. Runners need to consider coming forward to do their bit occasionally and help ROs as they will most likely be the future ROs.

If there is to be a new AL race in England I think the Howgills would be the best bet but who would put their neck on the line to put it on, wherever it might be?

[RaceTheSweeper]

Where the possible routes are in areas where access is difficult, are landowners concerned about access in general or regular, large-scale access creating trods? Could we mitigate landowner concerns by running some of these races purely as championship races every, say, 5 years as required?

Now that is a brilliant idea!

[wheezing donkey]

Now that is a brilliant idea!

Sadly, not altogether!
In theses days of open access, once runners have been introduced to a route by a race, they then tend to 'organise' training runs and club outings and 'reccies' along the race route. Thereby putting in jeopardy the RO's request to organise a future race, even 5 years after the previous one.