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Thread: The Killing of Raptors

  1. #11
    Master wharfeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heaning Hobbler View Post
    ...Good to see M &S are not selling grouse again this year, obviously they are more in touch with public opinion than defra.
    I think the only reason they are not selling grouse this season is because of the lack of surplus birds on the moor they were to be supplied from. That said it may be public opinion that swayed them towards not supporting grouse shooting. We shall see whether they return to selling grouse in the future. Hopefully by then there will be a ban on driven grouse shooting.

  2. #12
    Master Stagger's Avatar
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    I was married to a grouse beater who earn good money for a days fell walking.
    A quote,

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall."

  3. #13
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    I was married to a grouse beater who earn good money for a days fell walking.
    Missus and I go beating on a pheasant shoot every week, hard day climbing up and down the Cambrian mountains (highest in mid Wales) enjoying the exercise, views, company and then they give us 60 cash to take home.
    Like many retired people on pensions, taking a little beer money off some wealthy folks is fine with me, even get a days free shooting at the end of the season. No grouse moors here but guess it is the same there. Many, many a pensioner is grateful for a bit of extra cash and chance to keep fit.

  4. #14
    Master noel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wharfeego View Post
    I think the only reason they are not selling grouse this season is because of the lack of surplus birds on the moor they were to be supplied from. That said it may be public opinion that swayed them towards not supporting grouse shooting. We shall see whether they return to selling grouse in the future. Hopefully by then there will be a ban on driven grouse shooting.
    Grouse is OK. A bit like albatross but without the salty aftertaste.
    No longer "resting"

  5. #15
    Master wharfeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molehill View Post
    ...Many, many a pensioner is grateful for a bit of extra cash and chance to keep fit.
    That depends on how much thought one gives to one's actions.
    Fine if everything on the shooting estate is working within the law, I've carried out grouse beating myself in the past, however, now that I've become more aware of illegal activities within the gamebird shooting circles my conscience will not allow me to be part of the system any more.
    If one is keen on nature then how can one condone the illegal killing of raptors?

  6. #16
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wharfeego View Post
    If one is keen on nature then how can one condone the illegal killing of raptors?
    Precisely, many, many shooting people do not condone the shooting of raptors; unfortunately, the extreme actions of some (I like to think the minority) cast a shadow over the whole.

    I don't think this is any different from any other sport, where the negative actions of the few have a disproportionate effect on the public's view of the sport as a whole. This includes fell running or any other countryside activities, though these tend not to include the deaths of animals, protected or not.

    As for environmental and ideological opposition to activities, I try to block out (hard to do) emotive arguments and "polls" and follow scientific evidence and balance which is the better or the lesser of evils.

    I am far from convinced that a ban on grouse shooting would be to the overall benefit of wildlife and environment.
    My view, but I'm not going to fall out about it.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Dave_Mole's Avatar
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    here's a bit of science, then:
    http://www.animalaid.org.uk/images/pdf/kfps.pdf
    you'll note on p.2: "Science is frequently challenged on groundsof tradition or superstition."

    Rearing of game birds on an indusrtial scale is bad news.
    ....it's all downhill from here.

  8. #18
    Master wharfeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molehill View Post
    ...unfortunately, the extreme actions of some (I like to think the minority)...
    The "extreme actions" may well be much more prevalent than you think.
    The number of satellite-tagged raptors that go "missing", disappear into black holes, are far too many to suggest anything other than persecution by the the keepers of gamebirds, especially red grouse.
    From my way of looking at the raptor persecution situation; as long as there are keepers on the hills and moorlands, in effect farming to produce a surplus of birds for people to shoot, then no grouse eating predator, protected or not, will be safe from death by shooting, trapping or poisoning.
    The keepers' livelihoods depend on a surplus of birds; how many of those blokes (mainly blokes) would tolerate grouse-eating raptors on their patch? I do not think many.

  9. #19
    Headmaster Grouse's Avatar
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    I'm keepin me ed down.
    Tao begets one. One begets two. Two begets all things.

  10. #20
    Master wharfeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grouse View Post
    I'm keepin me ed down.
    Good idea.
    This could well be in your interest Grouse; today there's a Parliamentary evidence session about the call to ban driven grouse shooting. The full Parliamentary debate will be on 31st October 2016 at 16:30 (Freeview channel 131).
    Last edited by wharfeego; 18-10-2016 at 02:37 PM.

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