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Thread: The Killing of Raptors

  1. #21
    Grandmaster IanDarkpeak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grouse View Post
    I'm keepin me ed down.
    I thought they'd already had you...where've you been of late?

  2. #22
    Headmaster Grouse's Avatar
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    Been a bit bogged down with the curse of the running class - work.
    Tao begets one. One begets two. Two begets all things.

  3. #23
    Master GeoffB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanDarkpeak View Post
    I thought they'd already had you...where've you been of late?
    You were both at Luss on Saturday. Why didn't you speak to each other in the old-fashioned, traditional way?!!

  4. #24
    Headmaster Grouse's Avatar
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    We did as it happens. He snuck up on me when I was flapping about in the holding pen.
    Tao begets one. One begets two. Two begets all things.

  5. #25
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    Well Parliament debated the issue of driven grouse shooting - following loads of folk signing the petition. Having just skimmed through the transcript https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...GrouseShooting Its going to make Bu**er all difference. Can anyone explain the current stance of the RSPB on moorland birds - I'm confused having seen contrary references to them in the debate.

  6. #26
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    Not sure what you expected from the debate, seemed pretty fair points raised on both sides. But the most noticeable thing was the general lack of support for any ban, from MP's. The shooting lobby supplied their facts before the debate (http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/upload...management.pdf) and found MP's to present them, the pro-ban didn't seem to have a lot to offer and few hard facts.
    Any damn fool can make money, show me someone who can make time.

  7. #27
    Master wharfeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molehill View Post
    Not sure what you expected from the debate...
    I expected at least a tougher stance on the illegal persecution of raptors but no, the government has in effect given the persecutors a ticket to carry on harming our natural heritage.
    Coffey and her cronies make me sick.

  8. #28
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    Far as I can see everyone came out against wildlife crime. Perhaps you can point to what I have missed?
    It was a debate about a ban on grouse shooting, they weren't there to change laws on raptor persecution. Just because the world didn't change as a result of 120,000 people out of a population of over 60 million signing an online petition doesn't mean you have to throw yours toys out of the pram with the government.

  9. #29
    Master wharfeego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by molehill View Post
    ...throw yours toys out of the pram...
    I don't believe 'The Ban' would've been called for had it not been for the continued killing of raptors.
    In my opinion the people managing driven grouse shoots are the ones that are mainly responsible for the persecution of Hen Harriers, Peregrine Falcons and Golden Eagles.
    Of course there are others, pigeon fanciers and pheasant shoots being two.
    The government have done nothing to address the problem of raptor persecution despite all the evidence put to them recently.
    In fact if anything they have sided with those who wish to keep the status quo on driven grouse shooting.
    If I feel angry about that scenario then I'm one of many who feel that way.
    Throwing toys out of prams has nothing to do with my views.
    Keep on digging little moley.
    https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com

  10. #30
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    Dr Coffeys summing up included this:
    “I will finish by stating that government has no intention of banning driven grouse shooting, but we have every intention of bringing to justice those who break the law. We all agree that conserving the upland moorlands is in everyone’s best interests. We will help to ensure that a constructive dialogue continues so that grouse shooting is protected and these valuable moorlands thrive.”

    I honestly do not find that unreasonable, nor does it match your statement: "the government has in effect given the persecutors a ticket to carry on harming our natural heritage.
    Coffey and her cronies make me sick."

    The killing of endangered raptors has to cease, I agree with you 100% on that, but my belief is that compromises are the way forward, rather than bans and I doubt even that holding estate/landowners responsible would have the slightest effect at all. If we cannot catch and successfully prosecute a gamekeeper (or very few) for offences, then there is zero chance of getting a conviction against a wealthy landowner with unlimited legal recourses and possibly not even being a UK citizen or living here.
    With regards the Hen Harriers, I think the defra action plan is the best way forward and should have a chance, I am very disappointed that the RSPB withdrew it's support - after a few months, not even seeing a single breeding season through.

    Without compromise and bringing the vast majority(I would like to say all, but probably not) of the shooting community on board, I don't think the hen harrier has much chance and a ban on grouse moors would be it's death knell.
    Any damn fool can make money, show me someone who can make time.

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