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Thread: Payed support for BGR.

  1. #11
    Senior Member bigfella's Avatar
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    I think it should be applauded, more traffic, wider trods, more erosion, eventually large sections of the route will get the stone slab treatment, job done. Just a shame that by then I'll be too old to give it a go.
    Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

  2. #12
    Master Stolly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    That is a absolutely spot on GB.

    The traditional is a nice thought but reality is people want to just get round.
    Hogwash

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derby Tup View Post
    The web site is a shambles. Grammar, spelling etc is appalling. What struck me is there is absolutely no mention of safety on the hill; tellingly if you fail you lose your deposit, not we'll get you off the hill safe and warm. In my experience rounds don't "peter out" at road crossings and getting a runner off the fell and back to safety can be a big undertaking

    I don't worry about stuff like this tbh. The round is way too hard for tourists to complete. I agree with Graham; it'll be interesting to see how it develops

    An obvious thing is the web-site has been knocked up at minimum cost (this post has been proof read and edited more). My guess is they'll have few takers, and even fewer successes. Ironically I think they'd have been better off starting with three days "tours" and working down (or up!) to one day rounds. Three day success well presented on a good platform would have been much more attractive than their shambolic offer

    One last point: are the tie-ins with Leki and L50 / 100 official? There's more about poles than food in the FAQ section
    I understand this DT and also the points made by Graham too. I guess I have a problem with the mountains being used as a tick on the bucket list, things to do by 50 etc, by people who have no real love of the hills and no real knowledge of them. I often sit around with groups of friends, when someone mentions they are about to do the 3 peaks challenge with an organised group, and the general response from around a table is one of awe and admiration. if ever I have spoken about doing a BGR, the response is one of bewilderment and an inability to envisage what it is, "You are mad". But I have seen on here an had experience of people wanting to do BGR, just as a life tick to go along with their ascent of Kilimanjaro, swimming with Orcas, completing an ironman etc and have no real love of the hills or sense of what it is they are doing. A recent group I have knowledge of, knew the line of the BGR very well and had trained on it in good weather, but had no knowledge when it came to escaping/retreating to the valley in appalling conditions. they were not mountain people, lack mountain craft or are enthusiasts like so many people have been generally in the past. seems a shame it has to go the way of commercialisation. I'll not labour the point though!!

  4. #14
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    These are personal views so with my BG Club hat off but we were aware of this subject shortly before this thread started.

    Most people who engage in athletic endeavour have some target or targets that they use to spur them on. This might be completing their first 10K to running the Marathon Des Sables but it's effectively the same: a goal to aim towards. The Bob Graham Round is, for many, no different.

    When I did my round it was on my lifetime achievement "tick list" that I'd drawn up some twenty years earlier and had in all honesty largely forgotten about. It was actually the only run in amongst nine climbs scattered around the UK and the world. I'd drawn the list up as a sort of melee of different public lists from books such as Hard Rock; Extreme Alpine Rock and Rebuffat's 100 Climbs in the Mt Blanc Range but also included other prominent high profile climbs. Mostly I used the list as a form of encouragement to get out and visit different places even if it meant not doing the actual route on my list - I've been to Yosemite Valley for instance but didn't even attempt The Nose on El Capitan.

    Tick lists (now often called Bucket Lists) were quite common in climbing at the time, but again as much as a prompt to visit interesting places as the routes on the lists themselves. There were of course those who were blinkered enough that only the routes on "the list" were worthy.

    My first attempt on the round was at a time when it really was "under the radar", I knew about it from growing up in The Lakes but had moved away. These forums weren't around at the time and the running club I was a member of weren't long distance fell specialists (it was only after I succeeded that I found out that three members had done the round) so I asked on the UKClimbing forums for help. Partly supporting Graham's point, two strangers stepped forward but unlike his "ships passing in the night" scenario I now know them. On my successful attempt another stranger helped out, I would have returned the favour but injury prevented him from ever attempting the round himself.

    I first met Mark Smith of this parish when he asked for help on his winter BG attempt due to one of his pacers getting injured. I think four or five of us turned up at Dunmail Raise on a very cold night to help out. None of us had met Mark before. That to me is the spirit of the Round.

    Personally I wouldn't use a commercial service to attempt the Round, to me part of the challenge is organising yourself to do it. Maybe I'm "old skool".

    Graham: I don't think I've seen or heard of any Sedan Chairs on the Round.

    Club hat on: We are discussing this.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    .

    I don't care a jot but I think it's all very interesting.
    But surely you care about the poor spelling and grammar on the web site?

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    These are personal views so with my BG Club hat off but we were aware of this subject shortly before this thread started.

    Most people who engage in athletic endeavour have some target or targets that they use to spur them on. This might be completing their first 10K to running the Marathon Des Sables but it's effectively the same: a goal to aim towards. The Bob Graham Round is, for many, no different.

    When I did my round it was on my lifetime achievement "tick list" that I'd drawn up some twenty years earlier and had in all honesty largely forgotten about. It was actually the only run in amongst nine climbs scattered around the UK and the world. I'd drawn the list up as a sort of melee of different public lists from books such as Hard Rock; Extreme Alpine Rock and Rebuffat's 100 Climbs in the Mt Blanc Range but also included other prominent high profile climbs. Mostly I used the list as a form of encouragement to get out and visit different places even if it meant not doing the actual route on my list - I've been to Yosemite Valley for instance but didn't even attempt The Nose on El Capitan.

    Tick lists (now often called Bucket Lists) were quite common in climbing at the time, but again as much as a prompt to visit interesting places as the routes on the lists themselves. There were of course those who were blinkered enough that only the routes on "the list" were worthy.

    My first attempt on the round was at a time when it really was "under the radar", I knew about it from growing up in The Lakes but had moved away. These forums weren't around at the time and the running club I was a member of weren't long distance fell specialists (it was only after I succeeded that I found out that three members had done the round) so I asked on the UKClimbing forums for help. Partly supporting Graham's point, two strangers stepped forward but unlike his "ships passing in the night" scenario I now know them. On my successful attempt another stranger helped out, I would have returned the favour but injury prevented him from ever attempting the round himself.

    I first met Mark Smith of this parish when he asked for help on his winter BG attempt due to one of his pacers getting injured. I think four or five of us turned up at Dunmail Raise on a very cold night to help out. None of us had met Mark before. That to me is the spirit of the Round.

    Personally I wouldn't use a commercial service to attempt the Round, to me part of the challenge is organising yourself to do it. Maybe I'm "old skool".

    Graham: I don't think I've seen or heard of any Sedan Chairs on the Round.

    Club hat on: We are discussing this.
    Bob

    A measured and intelligent response - as I would expect from you.

    I understand "lists" - I refused to stop running road marathons until I had done my sub-3 hours as a Vet.

    I am indifferent to the BGR but I've done a few fell races in my time and seen some changes in the sport since the 1980s; not all I which I like, but so what?

    I rather doubt we will see charabancs of city traders descending on Keswick and suspect this will all be a storm in a tea cup and so any "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" need not risk apoplexy stuttering "not how it was done in my day".

    And call me old fashioned but I would not risk my life with anyone who cannot spell.

    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  7. #17
    Master Stolly's Avatar
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    To be fair at 600 to 900 a pop with all the variables of weather I suspect that this idea won't float. I mean lets say I've paid 600 and, on the night of the off, the weather is awful. Who decides that we go for it? And if its the guide team, who decides what happens if we have to abort? There will be a high expectation of success if you're paying for it and yet, if you're paying for it, almost certainly a reduced likelihood of actually achieving it

  8. #18
    Grandmaster IanDarkpeak's Avatar
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    As I've posted on FB site....

    I think it goes against ethos of BG club and those that have gone before.

    I doubt it will make a huge difference to the route at all, if you get 10 a year I'd be surprised, go to Moot Hall any Friday in summer between 6-12.00 and I bet there is around 20+ setting off.

    It's not that new either, just better publicised, I was asked a couple of years ago to guide 2 legs as a fell running ML but I was already working.

    I also know of a company who did offer a Guided Paddy, not sure if they still do...

    Money wise its not that expensive, Not that I would do it...I don't think??..But I reckon 6-800 for guides isn't too far out. 130-150 per guide per leg is probably the going rate....

    So to summarise...
    I don't approve, Surprised it didn't happen sooner. doubt it will make a huge impact...

    I would like to see them doing more on the hill education side though.


    I wonder if I could invoice Dark Peak for all the past BG's

  9. #19
    Master MorganW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    I am indifferent to the BGR

    And call me old fashioned but I would not risk my life with anyone who cannot spell.
    But the indifference doesn't stretch too far Graham does it? I always welcome your thoughts, unlike some....

    Some standards must always be maintained and a tortuous spelling and grammar test will be bolted onto the registration form shortly in your honour. ;-)
    The only one who can tell you "You can't" is you. And you don't have to listen.

  10. #20
    Master MorganW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stolly View Post
    To be fair at 600 to 900 a pop with all the variables of weather I suspect that this idea won't float. I mean lets say I've paid 600 and, on the night of the off, the weather is awful. Who decides that we go for it? And if its the guide team, who decides what happens if we have to abort? There will be a high expectation of success if you're paying for it and yet, if you're paying for it, almost certainly a reduced likelihood of actually achieving it
    It's the abdication of personal responsibility that I can't swallow. The very antithesis of running in the mountains.

    But then I'm the sort who thinks that everyone who has climbed Everest since Messner's solo oxygen-free climb in 1980 has been taking standards backwards....
    The only one who can tell you "You can't" is you. And you don't have to listen.

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