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Thread: Payed support for BGR.

  1. #21
    Master MorganW's Avatar
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    This isn't just an interesting debate with ethical and safety overtones to my mind at least.

    The BG Club, for better or worse, was founded based on certain key principles, all of which (to my mind) remain as valid today as they did in 1972.

    Club members, again rightly to my mind, want an answer to the question of whether a round completed within 24 hours in this fashion will qualify for membership of the Club or not.

    The FRA is a membership organisation. So is the BG Club.

    Which is why, through a variety of channels, I have been trying to gather views on what members think.

    And which is why that process needs to continue for a while yet.
    The only one who can tell you "You can't" is you. And you don't have to listen.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MorganW View Post
    This isn't just an interesting debate with ethical and safety overtones to my mind at least.

    The BG Club, for better or worse, was founded based on certain key principles, all of which (to my mind) remain as valid today as they did in 1972.

    Club members, again rightly to my mind, want an answer to the question of whether a round completed within 24 hours in this fashion will qualify for membership of the Club or not.

    The FRA is a membership organisation. So is the BG Club.

    Which is why, through a variety of channels, I have been trying to gather views on what members think.

    And which is why that process needs to continue for a while yet.
    My final comment, or you may suspect I actually do care about all this: I posit Morgan that you (understandably) are looking at it from the "Club" point of view but my putative city trader might just want to do the BGR and be indifferent as to whether or not he is welcomed by the "Club".

    After all Messrs Heaton (A), Bradshaw, Heaton (K), Beard, Naylor, Walkington et al didn't do their BGR with any "Club" in mind.
    Last edited by Graham Breeze; 04-11-2016 at 02:22 PM.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  3. #23
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Graham:

    Not everyone who succeeds on the round wishes to be a member of the club, there was someone who posted on here about a solo round a couple of years ago who was quite happy to have done it and also that, with it being a solo round, it didn't qualify for club membership.

    However all those who attempt the round do impact the Club: it's got our name on it! Any problems tend to land at the Club's door no matter how tangential - we've had national newspapers enquiring about footpath damage for example (that got dropped when it was pointed out that there were less than 2000 members across the 40+ years of the Club when there were some tens of millions of visitors to The Lakes per annum).

    An aside: a few weeks ago I bumped into an old climbing pal who I'd not seen for many years. In the course of our chat I mentioned I'd done the BG, it turned out that he is Pete Walkington's brother!
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Graham:

    Not everyone who succeeds on the round wishes to be a member of the club, there was someone who posted on here about a solo round a couple of years ago who was quite happy to have done it and also that, with it being a solo round, it didn't qualify for club membership.

    However all those who attempt the round do impact the Club: it's got our name on it! Any problems tend to land at the Club's door no matter how tangential - we've had national newspapers enquiring about footpath damage for example (that got dropped when it was pointed out that there were less than 2000 members across the 40+ years of the Club when there were some tens of millions of visitors to The Lakes per annum).

    An aside: a few weeks ago I bumped into an old climbing pal who I'd not seen for many years. In the course of our chat I mentioned I'd done the BG, it turned out that he is Pete Walkington's brother!
    Bob

    I happily accept your point.

    Graham
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MorganW View Post

    Club members, again rightly to my mind, want an answer to the question of whether a round completed within 24 hours in this fashion will qualify for membership of the Club or not.

    The FRA is a membership organisation. So is the BG Club.

    Which is why, through a variety of channels, I have been trying to gather views on what members think.

    And which is why that process needs to continue for a while yet.
    In answer to your query, what do I think (for what it is worth)? I think that anyone who is paid for helping someone complete a round is not entering into the spirit of the club and, as a result, the round should not be recognised. How this should be administered is tricky. I don't have anything against this company seeking to make a living from their experience and expertise by helping people on the hills (guided runs, training, advice etc.) but I think this company has misjudged/misunderstood what the BG is about. Like I've said on fb, almost all us find great pleasure and enjoyment from helping out on rounds but it's not something we would ever contemplate charging for. I don't think the client can be to blame (after all we have all been guided/aided/supported on our rounds, albeit for free) but the commercialisation of the round by companies should be discouraged. How could this be enforced? Perhaps by telling them that the contenders they guide round will not be recognised by the club.

  6. #26
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    A short story: There is a village, let's call it BobLand. One day, in BobLand, the villagers decide to turn the village hall into a weekly nightclub. They each take it in weekly turns to provide drinks, music, man the bar, sort out lighting etc. The nightclub is free provided each villager helps out in some way (providing drinks, manning the bar, sorting lightinh etc). This nightclub is a huge success and provides much weekly gossip and excitement. However, one day, Farmer Charles puts posters up in the neighbouring village, let's call it SouthLand. The posters advertise this nightclub telling people how good it is and they can pay 10 to get into the club, as long as they purchase a ticket from him. Farmer Charles promises to transport them to the club and provide their drinks, food and music. There is outrage in BobLand when they hear about this. They immediately ban Farmer Charles from the nightclub but welcome with open arms all the villagers from SouthLand. The following week the villagers from SouthLand invite the villagers of BobLand to their nightclub. All for free.

  7. #27
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    From one Bob to another
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  8. #28
    Don't see what the fuss is about, a few years ago me and a mate did the Innaccesaible Pinnacle and Naismith's Route with Martin Moran, no chance we could have done them on our own so it was money well spent. They are offering a service, if people are willing to pay let them get on with it

  9. #29
    Senior Member philbrynmaen's Avatar
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    Very interesting discussion. I completed my BGR in 2009 and rate it one of the highlights of my life. I suspect like many others my inspiration came from "Feet in the Clouds". I've run and climbed all my adult life and know the Lake District fells very fell. However the challenge of running for 24 hours over these hills was a scary and daunting prospect. Although a member of a climbing club I am not a member of a running club even though I compete in OMMs and other mountain marathons.

    One of the biggest challenges for me was having very few contacts/friends in the fell running world and I was very sure I needed the fullest support to help me round. An entirely chance encounter on the historic Borrowdale 2008 OMM meant I met a BG Club Member who offered to help me. He provided all the hill support and much of the valley support too. I was and am eternally grateful to those who helped me - I had never met them before. But we instantly had the shared love of the hills and knowledge that what we were doing was special. I have since gone on to support others I also have never met prior to their attempt. It has been brilliant.

    My point is that there may be people (like me) out there with ability and desire but without the support and contacts to assist. I feel the whole BG experience for me has been totally positive and I can't imagine now not having had that chance. So how does paying someone to help impact? For me I'm glad this was never an option but I don't see the problem provided the guidance, rules and ethos of the club are met.

    I also agree with other posters that I don't see too many people taking the payed option, or succeeding using this path. Doesn't the poor grammar suck too!

  10. #30
    Senior Member philbrynmaen's Avatar
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    Ha...love it! Just re-read my post and saw "payed" when surely it should be "paid"??? Let him who is without sin...!

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