Payed support for BGR.

[fishbulb]

The Guide:
http://www.mountainrun.co.uk/news/gu...-graham-rounds

[Stagger]

Fair play Charlie and a good piece to read.

I wish you and your venture every success.

[johnsty]

Good luck to them in my opinion. No difference to people paying a fortune to enter ultra races abroad. And sometimes in the lakes

[that_fjell_guy]

It is a tricky subject. My first response was 'oh! no! More people going over and over the route', but the article clears large concerns up. The author is 100% correct, it is YOUR round, do it as you wish. Hopefully one day I will! I have been running and walking, and just looking at' parts of the route for pretty much 20 odd years and its changed, IMHO, not for the better. There are now clear tracks across the route when, in very recent history, it was a navigation route as much as stamina one. Much worse in my opinion, and I know others here will wildly disagree, are the club trains and the mass recce, and repeat recces (...of which to a degree I'm as guilty as any) carving a route out and taking the navigation/wild element away. But as the author states. Each to their own, me to mine, him to his. Change is inevitable!!

[Stolly]

It is a tricky subject. My first response was 'oh! no! More people going over and over the route', but the article clears large concerns up. The author is 100% correct, it is YOUR round, do it as you wish. Hopefully one day I will! I have been running and walking, and just looking at' parts of the route for pretty much 20 odd years and its changed, IMHO, not for the better. There are now clear tracks across the route when, in very recent history, it was a navigation route as much as stamina one. Much worse in my opinion, and I know others here will wildly disagree, are the club trains and the mass recce, and repeat recces (...of which to a degree I'm as guilty as any) carving a route out and taking the navigation/wild element away. But as the author states. Each to their own, me to mine, him to his. Change is inevitable!!

To be fair Ian, contrary to popular belief, most of the BGR covers the ground using well used paths and tracks with only small parts that could be considered eroded by the round itself and excessive recceing. I agree that the line off the back of Skiddaw is one such trod but even there, when I ran through a few weeks back, it didn't look any worse, or the bogs any deeper, than it was 3 or 4 years ago. As for the rest, apart from perhaps the ramp up Bowfell (still hard to find if you don't know where to look ) you're following well used Lakeland trails up Skiddaw, down Blencathra, over pretty much all of the Helvellyn range, most of the Langdales and Scafells, and most of the run in from Wasdale to Keswick (with a few little cuts here and there). The BGR's damage to the fells is still minimal.

What though does annoy me a bit, and I guess this could be levelled at some runners using the Dark Peak BG trains, is the idea of hardly knowing the route at all and being led round by a team of experts.

[Bobster]

Good luck to them in my opinion. No difference to people paying a fortune to enter ultra races abroad. And sometimes in the lakes

I totally disagree. Charles, in my opinion, is going against the traditions and ethics of the club by charging for his services and exploiting the growing popularity of the round. As harsh as it sounds, we all have a living to make....there are other jobs he could do to earn the £2, 000 odd he estimates he will get from this venture. As a member of the group he should be upholding and respecting this tradition. Read any book/article on the subject and this sense of tradition and camaraderie weaves through all accounts. The recent strava interview with Ricky lightfoot reflects this tradition too. I wonder what fred rogerson would say? The 'client' can't be to blame-they're a merely replying to an advert. Charles should know better-particularly given his strong lakeland connections and upbringing which he is so passionate to point out. The BG is not the same as a commercial ultra run.

[that_fjell_guy]

You are of course right if you consider the whole Stolly. But the back of Skiddaw is totally lacking the need for recce or navigation on the day. Night and clag excepting. Going up over Clough Head now has a line, even lower down through the boggy area near the farm. Going down and out of Dunmail is the same. I recall parking at Dunmail when I first became determined to look at it, so maybe 8 or 10 years ago and I couldn't spot any line, now its pretty obvious both sides. The route, though does, obviously require a lot of detailed recceing to work out the good lines which don't become so well used. But I guess this is off the original point tbh. It is I guess a case of horses for courses.

[Stolly]

Regardless of the lines up Clough Head and down and out of Dunmail, from a navigation point of view I've been on proper clearly defined paths 12 foot wide on the BG in the dark, fog and pissing rain and had massive trouble navigating and staying on them 😊

[Bobster]

There's a nice little book review in the spring fellrunner 1977 (pdf pages 46-48/p. 11 is also quite interesting):

http://www.fellrunner.org.uk/fellrunner.php

I wonder if Fred rogerson ever considered charging a transport mileage rate for assisting at access points on every round from July 1960-June 1972?

[that_fjell_guy]

I totally disagree. Charles, in my opinion, is going against the traditions and ethics of the club by charging for his services and exploiting the growing popularity of the round. As harsh as it sounds, we all have a living to make....there are other jobs he could do to earn the £2, 000 odd he estimates he will get from this venture. As a member of the group he should be upholding and respecting this tradition. Read any book/article on the subject and this sense of tradition and camaraderie weaves through all accounts. The recent strava interview with Ricky lightfoot reflects this tradition too. I wonder what fred rogerson would say? The 'client' can't be to blame-they're a merely replying to an advert. Charles should know better-particularly given his strong lakeland connections and upbringing which he is so passionate to point out. The BG is not the same as a commercial ultra run.

Hello bobster. I do understand your view on this, but as has been pointed out previously, to myself and others, the BGR Club isn't necessarily the same as the BGR and people are free to 'respect' the traditions or not. It really matters not a jot to me how another runner choses to accomplish his goals. Personally I'd like to learn the route and run it as much off my own back as possible, some are happy with the club train, some are happy with a paid guide. If I'm honest I'd say Fred Rogerson wouldn't really care and might wonder what the fuss is about...but I never knew him so am uninformed to comment. I do agree, to a point. that commercialism and the BGR doesn't sit too well but I don't really think the 'guide' is going that far, the response on fb and here has probably advertised it more than any article or advert he has put out there. Also I know of at least two book solely about the BGR, and at least one journalist who ran it and published an article. Where does commercialism start and finish?

I apologise for my grammar and spelling in advance!