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Thread: Keep it simple.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    It appears to be a problem that is only going to get worse.
    There is no way around it and no use saying "when I did it".
    Yes people have to respect sensitive areas but as numbers completing or evening attempting, it will only get worse.
    But what is wrong with a slight footpath that you will only see from a helicopter?
    I wonder about this myself Trev...I remember the first time I did Leg 3 must have been 2007 and by 2010 (the last time I did that leg) there was already a far more noticeable trod going up Steel Fell. Now I presume that trod is far more developed. Likewise the route from Skiddaw to Calva was really becoming properly scarred by 2010 as well. Part of me thinks the true travesty is that it makes the round 'easier' or at least faster but the path forming bit doesn't seem too ethically problematic to me; paths have been formed for thousands of years by footfall - in many ways that seems better to me than disturbing a greater area of land by people taking whatever line they want across the land and disturbing more wildlife etc. At least if the BG does develop into essentially a trod, in time it will affect only a small area. Or am I missing something completely?
    Trying to plod up hills every day slightly faster than the day before

  2. #12
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    I should add that if I were doing the round I'd do Halls Fell over the Parachute for the reason that there is already a path leading from A-B so to erode a new one seems a bit excessive but in some areas (like the back of Calva) the paths seem to be caused by the fact there's only one decent route and it's seeing more footfall - that's natural and ethical to me
    Trying to plod up hills every day slightly faster than the day before

  3. #13
    Master JohnK's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Stagger;634491]It appears to be a problem that is only going to get worse.
    There is no way around it and no use saying "when I did it".
    Yes people have to respect sensitive areas but as numbers completing or evening attempting, it will only get worse.
    But what is wrong with a slight footpath that you will only see from a helicopter?[/QUOTE]


    Give it time and that slight path will become a watercourse.
    We all know of plenty of (ex) slight paths that are now washed out.
    The older I get the Faster I was

  4. #14
    Master MorganW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    But what is wrong with a slight footpath that you will only see from a helicopter?
    Some would say nothing.

    But if your reason for existence is the preservation of of a defined and special landscape and its natural environment then I think that that the creation and entrenchment of new paths might well feature on your worry list.
    The only one who can tell you "You can't" is you. And you don't have to listen.

  5. #15
    Master Stagger's Avatar
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    Strange perception Morgan as everyone connect with BG's had helped cause this erosion.

    Maybe the only true challenge is to visit 42 peaks of your own choice, in any order but without using a tracks. No I'm not trying to wind up the BG club.

    Just thinking out loud. In this day and age where ultra running is booming and you call something a challenge, the queue to undertake it begins.

    No trods in Bobs day, very few trods in 70-90s, slight paths from 2000s and in last 5 years similar to the M6.

    Maybe become like the Pennine Way with horrible stone flags on the worst sections.
    A quote,

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall."

  6. #16
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    As I said, we all cause erosion, it's just that we "accept" that done in the past whilst at the same time trying to manage what's happening in the present. We all have a view in our mind's eye of how the landscape should look and get upset when it changes but look at photographs of the Lakes from a century ago and it's vastly different. There's new roads, buildings, etc. the Penrith - Keswick railway is no more and so on.

    We get fairly regular requests to include the BGR in books along the lines of "The World's Best Adventure Races" which are always declined - see this page , because of the problems the increased footfall (and behaviour) would bring, if you aren't part of the running community you are less likely to be concerned with the consequences of your behaviour and actions.
    Bob

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  7. #17
    Master Stagger's Avatar
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    Well said Bob,you put in words what I was eluding to.
    A quote,

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall."

  8. #18
    Master MorganW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    Strange perception Morgan as everyone connect with BG's had helped cause this erosion.
    Of course Trevor.

    Perhaps Bob and I have a slightly different take because of our official roles.

    If someone has an issue with something to do with the Bob Graham, where do they come? To us.

    We find it sensible to try and keep abreast of the view of relevant third parties to what is happening on the ground; and the LDNPA is one of those.

    Bob has mentioned one way in which we work to try and limit footfall, via the Media Policy.

    There are others behaviours to encourage: single contender attempts rather than multiples; fewer pacers on the day; fewer reccies in preparation; encouraging deeper skill sets so that contenders feel the need for less support.

    Contenders have a role to play. So do supporters. Everyone wants to say yes to a request for help. But folk should pause and ask about what level of help is already committed.

    A simple recognition of the effect of the traffic on the landscape is a good starting point; and the assumption of some personal responsibility about the approach taken in preparation and on the day.

    That is why I found Meghan Hicks's views on the Parachute refreshing and enlightening. Put the landscape first, worry about speed/self second.
    The only one who can tell you "You can't" is you. And you don't have to listen.

  9. #19
    Clough Head trod as mentioned in the first post - some history on it. There was a faint trod in the upper bowl for years but the line you see now right up the front really appeared - took hold - to the naked eye after last years Lakes in a Day event, procession of people and wet weather just like some fell race routes, it's not wrong just a fact. This is from the person who lives under Clough Head at Newsham, is my father in law and who's lived there for 40 odd years. That trods not going to disappear now as we are like flies to them, unless every new ascent walks away from the trod, but that's a personal take and not something that can be policed. It's the Meagn Hicks type thinking.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Alan Lucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBergerud View Post
    Clough Head trod as mentioned in the first post - some history on it. There was a faint trod in the upper bowl for years but the line you see now right up the front really appeared - took hold - to the naked eye after last years Lakes in a Day event, procession of people and wet weather just like some fell race routes, it's not wrong just a fact. This is from the person who lives under Clough Head at Newsham, is my father in law and who's lived there for 40 odd years. That trods not going to disappear now as we are like flies to them, unless every new ascent walks away from the trod, but that's a personal take and not something that can be policed. It's the Meagn Hicks type thinking.
    I did the race (nearish the front there, before my "wheels" fell off) and also supported a BG on leg 2 earlier in the year. It was definitely there before that race. On the day it was fairly solid underoot too. However there's no doubt that this race plus the Helvellyn race have worn it in further.

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