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Thread: Keep it simple.

  1. #21
    Master Martyn P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lucker View Post
    I did the race (nearish the front there, before my "wheels" fell off) and also supported a BG on leg 2 earlier in the year. It was definitely there before that race. On the day it was fairly solid underoot too. However there's no doubt that this race plus the Helvellyn race have worn it in further.
    Of course, not everybody goes that way on the BG ....

  2. #22
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    Reducing the impact doesn't only apply to the attempt itself, but to recces also.
    Perhaps people could be encouraged to keep their recce of each legs down to a recommended maximum.
    Perhaps people could use those recces to practise their navigation and become self sufficient in finding their way round the route. (It is my opinion that contenders should not need really a navigator, they should be able to find their own way round - if people are less than confident in their navigation then the BG should be used as an impetus to improve fell navigation - and, in fact, all round maountain craft - it should not be pureley a physical exercise with hand holding).

    Members need to be aware of their impact also and take some responsibility. I have, in the past, stepped out of supporting a leg when I arived at the road crossing to find some ridiculous number of people were there to run support ( I it was something like 5 or 6 !!).
    There seems to be a bit of a "more the merrier " attitude.

    Is its time to start embracing technology, use of GPS traces to validate a completion ? Would this help ? The primary role of support runners is to validate visits to summits.

    Should the Club provide some updated guidance regarding recces and support ?
    Along the lines of -

    Recce Activity
    Please consider the impact of your recce activity on the environment in general and on the route of the Round in particular - How many times to you need to cover the route in preparation ( the BG Club would propose no more than...a number)
    Please use your recce activity constructively to learn the route and navigate around the route yourself, this may help to reduce the number of support runners that you need ( See separate notes on impact of support runners)

    Support runners
    To help reduce the impact of the Bob Graham Round on the environment in general and on the route of the Round in particular please keep the number of support runners for your attempt to a minimum. You should require no more than 2 supporters: a navigator and a carrier. If these can be combined in to one person, or if you can be self sufficient in navigation then this is preferable.

    Navigation
    Completeion of the Bob Graham Round requires good mountain navigation and general mountaincraft skills. If your navigation is not strong then please use your desire to complete the Bob Graham Round as an impetous to learn and improve your navigation, such that you can navigate in the fells with confidence and accuracy, this is much preferable to relying on others and will serve you well in the future.

    Equally guidance to BG Club members could include raising the issue.
    As a member of the BG Club you are encouraged to support others in their attempts to complete the round but please consider the impact of your recce activity on the environment in general and on the route of the Round in particular. Are you needed on a recce run ? Are you needed in support of an attempt, is there already enough support ? Please don't "just go along for the ride"

  3. #23
    Super Moderator Derby Tup's Avatar
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    "Is its time to start embracing technology, use of GPS traces to validate a completion ? Would this help ? The primary role of support runners is to validate visits to summits"

    The primary role of support runners is safety (imho)
    Poacher turned game-keeper

  4. #24
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    Andy, no matter how much "guidance" we produce, it gets ignored!

    Example 1: the registration page on the club website specifically states not to register if you have already done so for the current year and the form also has a field asking this. Yet a significant proportion will register multiple times because: the confirmation email didn't arrive in 30 seconds; it got diverted to their spam folder; they didn't read it; etc. I've added technical solutions to the website to provide further checks (cookies) but then people use a different computer to get round that!

    Example 2: The ratification form has instructions and help fields and yet people still get things wrong. There's an instruction to put a specific heading in the email so that my email client can automatically filter applications and I don't miss them amongst all the other stuff I deal with yet only about 1/3 do so. One form arrived with just the applicant's start and finish time! When it was explained that the requirements are that times at all summits were needed, the response was "we didn't write them down"!

    Example 3: I send out dinner invites with the express instruction that all correspondence should be sent to a specific email address (not mine) yet at least a third will then email me asking about tickets, etc.

    We already suggest no more than 2 pacers/helpers per leg and to consider others. The ratification form only has space for two pacers per leg. What do we do? Reject any application for membership where there are more than two helpers per leg? People will just put two down and we'd be none the wiser. The guidance notes have in the last few years expanded from just over one side of A4 to three. Does anyone read it? In order to get the ideals across we reduced the notes to four bullet points:

    Respect the route.
    Respect those who live and work along the route.
    Respect the history, traditions and ethos of the round.
    Don't mess things up for others.

    These bullet points are on the club website and on the email that gets sent to contenders. Morgan also expressed similar thoughts in his document that may be downloaded from here . Maybe you should have read them and the other info on the Club site Andy?

    If the above sounds like I get frustrated/exasperated then it's because at times I am. I enjoy the role and seeing the enthusiasm and joy of those who succeed, but by heck, some aren't half hard work! As Club committee members we aren't and don't want to be policemen, there's a level of competency and honesty required and it shouldn't have to be either stated or enforced.
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  5. #25

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Andy, no matter how much "guidance" we produce, it gets ignored!

    Example 1: the registration page on the club website specifically states not to register if you have already done so for the current year and the form also has a field asking this. Yet a significant proportion will register multiple times because: the confirmation email didn't arrive in 30 seconds; it got diverted to their spam folder; they didn't read it; etc. I've added technical solutions to the website to provide further checks (cookies) but then people use a different computer to get round that!

    Example 2: The ratification form has instructions and help fields and yet people still get things wrong. There's an instruction to put a specific heading in the email so that my email client can automatically filter applications and I don't miss them amongst all the other stuff I deal with yet only about 1/3 do so. One form arrived with just the applicant's start and finish time! When it was explained that the requirements are that times at all summits were needed, the response was "we didn't write them down"!

    Example 3: I send out dinner invites with the express instruction that all correspondence should be sent to a specific email address (not mine) yet at least a third will then email me asking about tickets, etc.

    We already suggest no more than 2 pacers/helpers per leg and to consider others. The ratification form only has space for two pacers per leg. What do we do? Reject any application for membership where there are more than two helpers per leg? People will just put two down and we'd be none the wiser. The guidance notes have in the last few years expanded from just over one side of A4 to three. Does anyone read it? In order to get the ideals across we reduced the notes to four bullet points:

    Respect the route.
    Respect those who live and work along the route.
    Respect the history, traditions and ethos of the round.
    Don't mess things up for others.

    These bullet points are on the club website and on the email that gets sent to contenders. Morgan also expressed similar thoughts in his document that may be downloaded from here . Maybe you should have read them and the other info on the Club site Andy?

    If the above sounds like I get frustrated/exasperated then it's because at times I am. I enjoy the role and seeing the enthusiasm and joy of those who succeed, but by heck, some aren't half hard work! As Club committee members we aren't and don't want to be policemen, there's a level of competency and honesty required and it shouldn't have to be either stated or enforced.
    Eh Bob this BGR all seems to be a bit of a palaver.

    I was waiting until I'm 75 to do mine but with all this faff I think I'll now climb Mt Everest instead.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  6. #26
    Master Bob's Avatar
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    It should be Graham, it should be.

    Didn't realise you were that well heeled to afford an attempt on Everest
    Bob

    http://bobwightman.co.uk/run/bob_graham.php

    Without me you'd be one place nearer the back

  7. #27
    Master Stagger's Avatar
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    Lord B of Ilkley owns Mt Everest.

    Very modest though.
    A quote,

    "The greatest accomplishment is not in never falling, but in rising again after you fall."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    Eh Bob this BGR all seems to be a bit of a palaver.

    I was waiting until I'm 75 to do mine but with all this faff I think I'll now climb Mt Everest instead.
    And a bit more iconoclasm . . .

    I have never understood the attraction of doing a challenge that hundreds or thousands of other people have already done. The "Three Peaks" business is even worse than the BGR. Why don't people have the imagination to devise their own challenges? Like Mark Rigby with his solo, unsupported Cairngorms round, or Stolly with his 60 ascents of Pen-y-Ghent in 60 days?

  9. #29
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    Is 60 in 60 days the same impact as 1 attempt with 59 supporters?

  10. #30
    Master molehill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonykay View Post
    And a bit more iconoclasm . . .

    I have never understood the attraction of doing a challenge that hundreds or thousands of other people have already done. The "Three Peaks" business is even worse than the BGR. Why don't people have the imagination to devise their own challenges? Like Mark Rigby with his solo, unsupported Cairngorms round, or Stolly with his 60 ascents of Pen-y-Ghent in 60 days?
    Because we are like sheep, 99% of us like to follow the tried and tested. The 1% are the imaginative and brave.

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