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Thread: Brexit

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    Oh really, who has said this? There is zero prospect of EU citizens being made to leave.
    The UK government has not yet published officials documents saying under what circumstances EU citizens can reside in the UK.
    Last edited by Gambatte; 18-11-2017 at 01:16 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever View Post
    As for not being satisfied, that's pretty understandable when you think that the austerity imposed by the EU
    If you knock at my door begging for a loan sure I can say under what conditions I am prepare to lend, do I not?
    Dont forget how you Brits painted the Greece as the country where nobodz ever pays taxes with dentist and lawyers reporting close to zero income... Now saying it was evil the EU imposed austerity...?
    Last edited by Gambatte; 18-11-2017 at 01:19 PM.

  3. #43
    How about this:
    we could argue for ever the good and bad of Brexit, without agreeing. Not that debating is a bad thing, on the contrary, but here my question:

    Under what conditions would you allow EU citizens to reside in the UK, including "new" ones as well as those already there? Bear in mind 1) there are also UK citizens in the EU, and they will probably face the reciprocal fate, and 2) for a deal to be agreed, trade or not, it needs approval by all 27 parliaments.

  4. #44
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    I voted for Leave primarily for trade. The EU strangles trade and has been useless at signing trade deals. We often hear of the 50 or so trade deals, but check out the EU website and you will find most of them are the UK and French territories.
    They count the Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Gibraltar.....

    MY next reason was that our politicians are basically crap these days. I think a lot of this is because it is so easy for them to pass the book.
    Westminster can blame the EU, the devolved assemblies blame Westminster, The Councils blame everyone...

    I want to be able to hold our politicians to account better.

    In terms of immigration, I would keep freedom of movement. But not freedom of movement to work. So I would have no issue with someone who flies in to Dublin and cross the border to UK as they can do now.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  5. #45
    Master Wheeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambatte View Post
    Immigration was the main drive for those who voted Brexit.





    You want the EU citizens but the Indians can stay?
    Gambatte, I think you've bought into propaganda there. The populist press whipped up a frenzy about this because it sells newspapers. Self determinism was probably a key driver for most people.
    Before we joined the Common Market, there were perfectly adequate mechanisms for movement of people between european countries. No reason to think that will not continue despite what the scaremongerers would say.
    Simon Blease
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    Gambatte, I think you've bought into propaganda there. The populist press whipped up a frenzy about this because it sells newspapers. Self determinism was probably a key driver for most people.
    Before we joined the Common Market, there were perfectly adequate mechanisms for movement of people between european countries. No reason to think that will not continue despite what the scaremongerers would say.

    You are deluded Wheeze. You may have had good intentions about your desire to be self determined but...

    the populist press whipped up a frenzy of fear about immigration and that was totally the main driving force behind voting for leave ( which obviously now maybe they are realising is ridiculous and unworkable)

    Well that is apart from the fact that actually the main driving force was they didn't have a clue about what they were voting for.

    I hope you don't feel guilty. I know my dad does.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by millipede View Post
    You are deluded Wheeze. You may have had good intentions about your desire to be self determined but...

    the populist press whipped up a frenzy of fear about immigration and that was totally the main driving force behind voting for leave ( which obviously now maybe they are realising is ridiculous and unworkable)

    Well that is apart from the fact that actually the main driving force was they didn't have a clue about what they were voting for.

    I hope you don't feel guilty. I know my dad does.
    That supposes that people knew the main driving force behind voting to Remain.

    The problem the Remain campaign had was that they had nothing to sell.

    Cameron / Osborne from the Tory perspective wanted a reformed EU.

    Corbyn / McDonnell from the Labour perspective wanted a reformed EU, but a totally different set of reforms to the Tories.

    Even Nick Clegg was calling for extensive reform.

    The argument has often been made against Leavers, but what type of Leave?

    Yet the Remainers I have mentioned above, all wanted a different type of Remain. The biggest issue was that none of them were capable of delivering what they wanted.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by millipede View Post
    You are deluded Wheeze. You may have had good intentions about your desire to be self determined but...

    the populist press whipped up a frenzy of fear about immigration and that was totally the main driving force behind voting for leave ( which obviously now maybe they are realising is ridiculous and unworkable)

    Well that is apart from the fact that actually the main driving force was they didn't have a clue about what they were voting for.

    I hope you don't feel guilty. I know my dad does.
    Indeed.

    Nobody voted to leave with any idea of what that meant, since the political drivers themselves clearly didn't know - as we now see every day. But people have always been foolish enough to buy a pig in a poke.

    Voting for freedom to make our own decisions as a country is a lovely idea, along with being in favour of "motherhood and apple pie", but back in the real world...

    I feel sadness for the working people who will pay the price for our leaving and annoyance with the intellectually self- indulgent, well-off professional classes and politicians who will float above whatever mess we finally end up with. "Oh dear, that hasn't turned out well has it, but another bottle of Petrus, shall we?"

    I am going to Belgium for a holiday tomorrow. I hope people will treat me with pity.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    Indeed.

    Nobody voted to leave with any idea of what that meant, since the political drivers themselves clearly didn't know - as we now see every day. But people have always been foolish enough to buy a pig in a poke.

    Voting for freedom to make our own decisions as a country is a lovely idea, along with being in favour of "motherhood and apple pie", but back in the real world...

    I feel sadness for the working people who will pay the price for our leaving and annoyance with the intellectually self- indulgent, well-off professional classes and politicians who will float above whatever mess we finally end up with. "Oh dear, that hasn't turned out well has it, but another bottle of Petrus, shall we?"

    I am going to Belgium for a holiday tomorrow. I hope people will treat me with pity.
    The pig in the poke was Major and Maastricht. Until then the EEC had worked reasonably well.

    Quite strange how after 5 years of Major, The Tories slumped to their worst election result ever.

    Now some portray him as some sort of enlightened sage.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Breeze View Post
    Indeed.

    Nobody voted to leave with any idea of what that meant, since the political drivers themselves clearly didn't know - as we now see every day. But people have always been foolish enough to buy a pig in a poke.

    Voting for freedom to make our own decisions as a country is a lovely idea, along with being in favour of "motherhood and apple pie", but back in the real world...

    I feel sadness for the working people who will pay the price for our leaving and annoyance with the intellectually self- indulgent, well-off professional classes and politicians who will float above whatever mess we finally end up with. "Oh dear, that hasn't turned out well has it, but another bottle of Petrus, shall we?"

    I am going to Belgium for a holiday tomorrow. I hope people will treat me with pity.
    But Graham people were sick of the EU fleecing us to maintain an elite. They were also tired of people coming over here on the take. It's bad enough having a take, take , take attitude at home without spreading it to Europe as well. This country and Europe couldn't and can't go on like that. Subsidising the poorer members of the EU will inevitably draw our standing of living down - no question. That is the whole purpose of the EU: sacrifice of the richer nations to the poorer.

    What the UK has to do now is to de-regulate as quickly as possible to make this place the best to do business. The chances of our government doing that are remote, but that is the best way of moving forward from this.

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