NHS in meltdown

[Mossdog]

The problem in our country with large public organisations is PPM.

Piss Poor Managers.

Until it is sorted they will always fail.

The problem in our country with large private organisations is PPM.

Piss Poor Managers.

Until it is sorted they will always fail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42680585

In reality of course PPMs are found in both public and private spheres. There's nothing necessarily uniquely or intrinsically inefficient with managers in public agencies or public services. The NHS managers,for example, have unfortunately got a near impossible task, with the country's demography being extremely challenging having shifted over the last few decades to far more retired people, living longer and in poor health, with relatively fewer younger people, in work and paying taxes. Sadly, some of the better skilled, innovative, creative and self-motivated younger people, some of whom also worked in the NHS, are now exiting GB as they have been effectively told they're no longer welcome (oops... a little remoaner dig ).

[Mike T]

Reading Robert Peston's WTF - he certainly agrees with the PPM problem. He feels there is a tiny number of top UK companies with great managers, but that most of the rest are well below the EU average, and hence the UK's poor productivity.
Having said that, and despite its poor funding, the NHS comes top or close to it in any comparisons of international health outcomes. But it has too few beds, and too few staff - both cost money. Picking up the pieces for social services is a separate issue, but social services themselves are also being starved of funds.

[Muddy Retriever]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42680585

In reality of course PPMs are found in both public and private spheres. There's nothing necessarily uniquely or intrinsically inefficient with managers in public agencies or public services.

The big difference being that PPM's in failing private sector organisations usually end up losing their jobs as they will at Carillion.

Sadly, some of the better skilled, innovative, creative and self-motivated younger people, some of whom also worked in the NHS, are now exiting GB as they have been effectively told they're no longer welcome (oops... a little remoaner dig ).

According to the NHS' own figures the number of EU nationals working in the NHS in the year following the referendum actually went up.

[Witton Park]

According to the NHS' own figures the number of EU nationals working in the NHS in the year following the referendum actually went up.

Yes the Brexit brigade who don't like misleading stats can't wait to tell us that x thousands are leaving the NHS but they refrain from telling us that x+y thousands are still starting work.

[Witton Park]

I recently had a chat with one of my brothers. I don't see him a lot, so had a catch up.

My sister-in-law works in a school. The school has just had a new head, a promoted teacher from within.

The school is struggling now. The new head might be a fantastic teacher, probably was to get the job. But can they manage a school?

My wife and I foster. Our assessment was done by a social worker 7 years ago. A nice lady, but when our draft assessment came through, it was so full of errors. Factual errors, spelling errors...it was a complete mess.
It must have been difficult to sit with us through several sessions lasting several hours each, take notes and get everything right, but the scale of what was wrong was incredible.
It showed a lack of attention to dealt.
That lady has now been promoted a few times and is in middle management in our local authority childrens services.

When I entered the workplace in 1983 it was as a "trainee manager".

The plan was 2 years on the shop floor, acting as an assistant to supervisors, moving around the departments and learning from different people.
The emphasis for my employer was learning on the job, from more senior and experienced people.

That stood me in good stead when I moved to work for a German company as a Product Manager, leading a team of designers, technicians, linking in to the sales team and customers.

I never needed any paper qualifications, no certificates, it was my experience they wanted.

I am qualified by experience, but I would find it difficult to get a management job now as I would be filtered out in the application process as I do not have that professional qualification, or a degree.

We have become obsessed in this country with badges, certificates, assessed standards....and I do believe it is having a negative effect on both public service and private industry.

and so I as an experienced manager run my own small business, which gives me a decent income, and will probably do so until I call it a day.

[CL]

I have every sympathy with your position but just like the Political Elite were all signed up to the EU and are having a struggle to tear themselves away from it, they are also tied to the NHS.

I think the public are persuadable, but I think they would be more open to change if that change was put forward by respected people, at arms length from the political system.
NO one trusts the politicians at the moment.

Hence I see a Royal Commission as the only chance to move away from the mess we currently have and open people's minds to alternatives.

It's a loaded dice Witton. You don't think the likes of Wheeze would suggest such a thing unless the commission was full of NHS supporting folk. The opening premise would be 'how can we save the NHS?' rather than the proper premise 'how do we achieve the very best health care?'

[CL]

Not just large public organisations. Recall how the privatised PPM experts and so called 'cream' of capitalism (banks, investment companies, insurance companies, etc.)drove the whole world economy onto the bleeding' rocks and had to be bailed out by those same public organisations (and tax payers)! Let's also not mentioned how PPM privatisation seems hellbent on driving the environment over the blink (damn it! i did mentioned it)Grrrrr

The banks are hardly an example of capitalism. They are institutions of champagne socialists, fed ever larger amounts of tax payers money to gamble on the economy. I've heard the motto 'easy money drives out good,' but apparently the government and it's institution the Bank Of England haven't because they still insist on flooding the banks with easy cash. It isn't going to end up a pretty sight.

[Wheeze]

CL...you missed the important word. But then you would. INDEPENDENT!
I think the NHS is fatally flawed. I dont think 'NHS supporting folk' would be able to give the best answer to healing its ills. I'm not one anyway. The beast needs putting down but not until some bright INDEPENDENT minds have shown us a better way to give healthcare to those that cant afford it.

[Mike T]

Nurses leaving in record numbers - unless you have seen it yourself, either as a patient or an NHS worker, it is difficult to understand how much pressure nurses can be under. It is understood that they will work beyond their hours, and not take the breaks they are due. The NHS would crumble even faster if they did not do this. Many cope, some cannot. The powers that be know all this, but choose not to act.

[PiesAreGood]

The big difference being that PPM's in failing private sector organisations usually end up losing their jobs as they will at Carillion.

The head honcho directors of these companies usually just walk out of one job they failed at and into another directorship of another company. Jobs for the boys and all that...