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Thread: NHS in meltdown

  1. #21
    Master
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    Years ago I was working at Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge and a doctor from one of the Health Maintenance Organisations in America was visiting to get ideas. After he a few days he decided it was basically chalk and cheese. The American Hospitals are half empty and doing their best to get people in; NHS Hospitals are bursting at the seams and doing their best to get people out. The purpose of providing health care in America is to make a profit; the purpose of the NHS is to provide health care. Sure, it sounds attractive to take the best from both systems - but the NHS, despite its problems, and in particular its poor funding, is generally regarded as one of the best systems there is.

    No private medical insurance for me.

  2. #22
    Master Wheeze's Avatar
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    Same here Mike.
    The most sensible point made here is to have a politically independent commission set up to determine a 'start from here' approach to providing a nationalised health care system. The original NHS model went past its sell-by date within 10 years of inception. As it stands now, it faces an impossible task of managing all expectations. Only an independent point of view will allow the politically unsayable but realisically vital things to happen.
    I am Kuno.

  3. #23
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeze View Post
    Same here Mike.
    The most sensible point made here is to have a politically independent commission set up to determine a 'start from here' approach to providing a nationalised health care system. The original NHS model went past its sell-by date within 10 years of inception. As it stands now, it faces an impossible task of managing all expectations. Only an independent point of view will allow the politically unsayable but realisically vital things to happen.
    That's what I put in post #9

    Just one point on the insurance/private/public issue. In Sweden I understand provision is very good and outcomes are also very good.
    But Sweden funds the treatment, which is provided by the private sector.

    We really need to look at options around the world, as many work better than ours and are still free at point of use.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by noel View Post
    This is an interesting argument that I've heard in a number of situations. It's akin to politicians who back state education being called hypocrites for sending their kids to a private school.

    It would be possible for someone to believe that a state health system is the best way forward and to believe that this should be adequately funded and well managed. However, if the NHS is not functioning properly in their local area, it would also be reasonable to opt for private medical insurance, while still holding the view than the NHS is the best way forward long-term.

    Or to put it a different way: I wouldn't call someone a hypocrite if they were calling for improvements in water quality, while at the same time refusing to drink river water.
    But you would call them hypocrites if they were calling for improvements to water quality whilst expecting others to drink river water.

    To actively argue for socialised medicine whilst knowing full well that you're rich enough to cop out, jump the queue and resort to a system you argue against (private care) is appalling.

  5. #25
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    So let's pour even more money down the drain by endorsing commission after commission and this review and that review. No wonder nothing ever gets done in this country.

    The medical professionals on this forum are brainwashed socialists incapable of considering anything but state mollycoddling. And you all thought it a wind up when I told you that most doctors are selected on the basis of conformity. No chance of becoming a doctor if you don't follow the 'suck upto the NHS' mantra.

    This winter crisis with people dying on corridors is nothing new. It's been going on years. Old people being starved and dying of thirst in filthy bedsheets. But all we get from Mike-T is "Chuck more money at it it's bound to work eventually," and from Wheeze "let's have another commission." And whilst people sit on commissions discussing how they're going to save the NHS people are dying from neglect. No wonder Americans voted Donald Trump, he's the symbol of impatience.

    The NHS is flawed, it can't be made to work for the individual. And by the time the socialists and liberals are finished we'll be paying 50% or more of our wages on it and the country will be almost bankrupt.

    Anyway I'm off to bed.

  6. #26
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    Before I go. Where's the Veterinary surgeons on here to tell us how private health care works for animals. Or is Longdogs(commodity) still locked up in Strangeways for nicking whisky from Tesco. I'll send her a postcard.

  7. #27
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    The problem in our country with large public organisations is PPM.

    Piss Poor Managers.

    Until it is sorted they will always fail.

  8. #28
    Master Mossdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stagger View Post
    The problem in our country with large public organisations is PPM.

    Piss Poor Managers.

    Until it is sorted they will always fail.
    Not just large public organisations. Recall how the privatised PPM experts and so called 'cream' of capitalism (banks, investment companies, insurance companies, etc.)drove the whole world economy onto the bleeding' rocks and had to be bailed out by those same public organisations (and tax payers)! Let's also not mentioned how PPM privatisation seems hellbent on driving the environment over the blink (damn it! i did mentioned it)Grrrrr
    “My actions are my only true belongings.”

  9. #29
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mossdog View Post
    Not just large public organisations. Recall how the privatised PPM experts and so called 'cream' of capitalism (banks, investment companies, insurance companies, etc.)drove the whole world economy onto the bleeding' rocks and had to be bailed out by those same public organisations (and tax payers)! Let's also not mentioned how PPM privatisation seems hellbent on driving the environment over the blink (damn it! i did mentioned it)Grrrrr
    Did they have to be bailed out? That was Gordon's call here in the UK and he was supported by Parliament.

    With hindsight, the FSA probably should not have been set up. The B0E should have been the ultimate monitor and ensured that these institutions were on a firmer financial footing and if any failed, they should have been allowed to.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

  10. #30
    Master Witton Park's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CL View Post
    So let's pour even more money down the drain by endorsing commission after commission and this review and that review. No wonder nothing ever gets done in this country.

    The medical professionals on this forum are brainwashed socialists incapable of considering anything but state mollycoddling. And you all thought it a wind up when I told you that most doctors are selected on the basis of conformity. No chance of becoming a doctor if you don't follow the 'suck upto the NHS' mantra.

    This winter crisis with people dying on corridors is nothing new. It's been going on years. Old people being starved and dying of thirst in filthy bedsheets. But all we get from Mike-T is "Chuck more money at it it's bound to work eventually," and from Wheeze "let's have another commission." And whilst people sit on commissions discussing how they're going to save the NHS people are dying from neglect. No wonder Americans voted Donald Trump, he's the symbol of impatience.

    The NHS is flawed, it can't be made to work for the individual. And by the time the socialists and liberals are finished we'll be paying 50% or more of our wages on it and the country will be almost bankrupt.

    Anyway I'm off to bed.
    I have every sympathy with your position but just like the Political Elite were all signed up to the EU and are having a struggle to tear themselves away from it, they are also tied to the NHS.

    I think the public are persuadable, but I think they would be more open to change if that change was put forward by respected people, at arms length from the political system.
    NO one trusts the politicians at the moment.

    Hence I see a Royal Commission as the only chance to move away from the mess we currently have and open people's minds to alternatives.
    Richard Taylor
    "William Tell could take an apple off your head. Taylor could take out a processed pea."
    Sid Waddell

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