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Thread: GPS in fell races

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceTheSweeper View Post
    The hubby and I are so pleased this is being debated in a calm and orderly manner. As yet, on this thread no one has said "I used it in NI". We know it was used, so by not admitting it it shows that the ones that did use it know it was not the right thing to do. I really hope this thread does not get swept under the carpet just to get resurrected in a few races time when it happens again.
    there have been a range of views expressed on the thread and it is indeed a good thing that we can all accept that others are entitled to their views and there is not necessarily one correct answer. it would not be a good thing, in my opinion, if it turned into a witch-hunt. or if those who do (for whatever reason - 'good' or otherwise) use gps in races where it is not against the rules were to be demonized for it.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ba-ba View Post
    see post 8 in this thread (first page)
    Cheers. Think I misread that the first time around.

  3. #63
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    The point made about EPO is pertinent. There are those who will always push at the boundaries of the rules (written or unwritten). In a way it's how things move forward - the classic example from athletics is the Fosbury Flop in high jumping, it wasn't banned as no-one had ever considered it until Dick Fosbury worked out that his CofG actually passed under the bar so he didn't need to jump so high.

    I've not used GPS devices in races but then I've not actually raced for a few years and back then they weren't exactly svelte or easy to use. I was never going to trouble the sharp end of any race anyway so wouldn't have gained much if anything if I had used one. The middle third of most races are a procession, you aren't going to get lost.

    If you are at the sharp end of a race then you aren't going to be wanting to look at a watch every minute or so to check if there's a shortcut coming up and you'll be breathing so hard you won't hear a beep unless it's the volume of the Land's End fog horn!

    Potentially it's more use to the tail end charlies who might not know the route and are out of sight of the group in front when they make a crucial turn, I'd argue for the safety case in this instance and wouldn't be bothered whether such use was declared or not, I'd rather they were out and enjoying themselves.
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  4. #64
    Master ba-ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    If you are at the sharp end of a race then you aren't going to be wanting to look at a watch every minute or so to check if there's a shortcut coming up and you'll be breathing so hard you won't hear a beep unless it's the volume of the Land's End fog horn!
    I'd disagree. You're forgetting that those at the front of the field will often have better hearing than some of those further back
    Watch beeps are quite obvious, maybe a bit less so in a race but if you know to listen out for it (i.e. it's foggy, you know you don't know the route) you'll notice it. I sometimes use an in-built timer in my watch to time intervals and it's noticeable enough when running at your max in many different surroundings. In fact some people have their watch set to beep every km/mile, which in a race is also very noticeable when within 5-10m (and give me a reason to try and drop them they're that irritating!)
    Most watches also vibrate (which would have helped were I using one when I went temporarily deaf at Castle Carr last year).
    Only speaking from experience of using a forerunner tracker watch. I imagine the Suunto follow-me-trail jobbies have an in-built dolby as they're bigger
    Nic Barber. Downhill Dandy

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travs View Post
    I think it's more likely that people who used GPS in the race in question just haven't seen the thread, or perhaps aren't even forum members. I count approx. 20 different forumites who have commented on this thread, and i guess only a fraction of them were racing in the race in question. This represents a small percentage of both the forum, the race in question, and the fellrunning community as a whole.

    Although it would certainly be interesting and perhaps helpful to hear the opposite view of a strong case for using GPS.

    On a slightly related note, i'm doing the UTS100 race in a couple of weeks (which in fact is GPS backup compulsory rather than just acceptable), and given the quite stringent entry criteria, i'm absolutely amazed at some of the questions fired at the organiser on their facebook page. The usual "what shoes to wear", "how easy is the route to follow" "where are the aid points" (i'd have thought that Pen-y-Pass didn't need much more description to pinpoint it's location!).

    My personal favourite, a guy expressing dismay on seeing a photo of the Nantlle ridge, that it was too high, exposed and steep, and he wouldn't be able to manage it! although i think he was possibly on the 50 mile race with a lower entry standard, but should still be a competent mountain runner according to the requirements of the race).
    I think there's actually been quite a balanced reasoned discussion on here with a few people advocating the use of GPS watches for navigation. However, based on the second half of your post, you know exactly where to go if you want to start a discussion with people with a "strong case", or at least their perception of a strong case!

    Out of interest I just searched the Facebook group for "gps navigation", which flagged up a post from a couple of years ago discussing exactly that, albeit in the context of mountain marathons rather than fell races, where I don't think there is any discussion to be had at all! However people still argued their cases, Boff Whalley replied as poetically as ever though... "Take your fancy watches off. Run in the countryside and enjoy being free of the encroaching and relentless digital lock-in. Look around you. Look at your map, and at the ground. You're in the world. Just you and the hills and the sky and the earth. Work it out. No ones and noughts, no flashing lights, no bleeping alarms. Just you and the rolling planet.
    I wouldn't suggest banning GPS devices – I'd just appeal to people to understand why they're out on the hills in the first place. For space and time and the challenge of finding your way around the countryside."

  6. #66
    Master PeteS's Avatar
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    Nice one Boff. If only all posts on Facebook were so eloquently put I might be tempted to to sign up.

  7. #67
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    Surly if a race specifies Navigation Skills Required (NS) and you have to carry map and compass then using GPS is just plain wrong.
    Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

  8. #68
    Senior Member Fozzy42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Potentially it's more use to the tail end charlies who might not know the route and are out of sight of the group in front when they make a crucial turn, I'd argue for the safety case in this instance and wouldn't be bothered whether such use was declared or not, I'd rather they were out and enjoying themselves.
    Yep agree, if its only used as a back-up when things go wrong then I'm OK with that.

  9. #69
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    On this subject, I received confirmation of entry to Ennerdale this morning, and interesting to note that in CFRA races (Ennerdale, Wasdale, Scafell Pike), the use of GPS has been specifically prohibited in the race rules...

  10. #70
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    I ran everyone of my 400 fell races with a Garmin on but never had preprogrammed data on it.
    It was only used for mileage and elevation in my personal logs.

    Would i be barred from wearing it?

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