When is a BG considered to be a Winter BG. Someone was told the other day that it was +/- two weeks from the Winter Solstice. The Winter Solstice is on the 22 December 2007 and is also the first day of Winter. Therefore the two weeks before Winter Solstice is Autumn! Anyone any views on what the rules are for a Winter BG?
I think just run it and record your times. I think most would accept a round from December to February/even March is a winter round.
I know day light is the big factor, but snow on the ground/weather etc is also a factor later in the year. So being outside of those 2 weeks can be harder. For me a winter round of say the RR would be harder in feb/march most years than in December.
I think you just pick your day, record the date, weather, snow cover etc. You can't really compare winter rounds anyway.
I think you're best making any winter attempt as close as possible to the full moon, ie. 24th December or 22nd January.
Clearly 24th Dec scores higher on being closer to the winter solstice, but you are more likely to have wintery weather on 22nd Jan.
I'd count anything from mid December through February as being winter.
The question of what constitutes a winter BG is something I am asked pretty frequently by those with an attempt in mind.
I have taken soundings from a variety of sources and am hoping to get the go-ahead from the BG Club committee to put a summary of these views on a separate page on the BG Club website together with a mostly complete list of winter completions.
One of the objectives of the Club is to keep records (and that must include records of winter completions) and so that means we have to determine what falls within "winter". Not everyone will agree with the views that are formulated and set down.
A hotly debated topic and the hotness of the debate won't decline just because the BG Club sets out its "rules" but at least there should be somewhere to start.
If the page becomes a reality, I will post a further note here to send people in the right direction.
Morgan
I, like Chris U, think that Dec to Feb is the winter period. If we don't go by that then perhaps we should adopt a more tangible measure such as specifying the depth of ice on Scafell Pike on the day of an attempt.
Yiannis
Well of the 17 recorded winter completions, the dates vary from 13th Dec to 16th Feb. These dates are what I would regard as around the limits of what is winter with regard to daylight but there is neatness in saying December, January and February as being acceptable for winter rounds. This would avoid the situation of deciding on the second weekend in Feb as being the latest date (for example) which could vary from the 8/9th to the 13/14th.
There are six completions for which I don't have the date but of the remaining 11, seven did the round within a week of the winter solstice, one in early Jan and the other three in Feb.
Stating snow cover is necessary isn't a help either - it could be a dusting; an inch or two; thigh deep; crusted so that it doesn't quite bear your weight; or firm neve (which would make many sections easier to run than in summer). Perhaps just an acceptance of honesty in the contender stating what the ground was like is all that is needed.
The problem really is that nature doesn't take account of human dates and it is perfectly possible to have full winter conditions until quite late in the year - for example: some of the big "winter" routes on Ben Nevis have, in recent years, been climbed close to midsummer's day!
Any decision is going to be as arbitrary as the Alpine winter season being defined as lying between the winter solstice and the spring equinox.
Bob, I have approval for the "Winter" page. I also got some feedback from John Brockbank on the list of winter rounds that I had already sent you. (I did get hold of JF by the way and he gave me some corrections for his own round.)
John thought that some of the entries were way off the mark in various details so I need to sort these problems out and then circulate a revised list to those who may be able to cross-check for me. I'll send you a copy via your home email when it's ready to share.
The list will always be a work in progress, I will apologise in advance for any deficiencies and ask those who spot problems to let me know.
Morgan
I came across a link (The Angry Corrie) that had basic details of the winter rounds by Scott Umbleby and Brian Meakin - I'd got 1989 instead of 1999 as the year.
No doubt there are others, "The 42 Peaks" has only snippets about the winter rounds and some of the facts/details are sandwiched in amongst other details so it was a bit of single source detective work - if this event happened in X and this event in Z then this winter round was in Y sort of thing. With no evidence to the contrary, I thought it was better to begin to get things listed so that errors and omissions could be corrected.
Bob
Re: Valid Winter BG Dates
Bob and others
The notes on Winter Rounds are now posted on a separate page on the BG Club website (www.bobgrahamclub.org.uk).
The Winter Rounds listings are still incomplete but i am working on winkling information out of relevant people to try and get a complete basic set of data.
Morgan
From the BG site;Originally Posted by BGSec
"the "Winter" round, which is a round not falling within the definition set out above, attempted during the period starting on 1 December and finishing on 1 March. "
Does any one know if this holds true for the PB, Ramsey or Tranter rounds.
Yiannis?
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