101 uses for a mobile!

[Graham Breeze]

There is an interesting facet of this whole debate....why do we fell run/race?

Grahams point above seems to be saying that because there are now more people fell racing, we need to modernise it. But perhaps because fell racing/running places more emphasis on disappearing values of self reliance and self responsibilty, perhaps this is why more people are doing it? So, to modernise it would be to dilute the very reason why people do it in the first place.
I know that the reason I fell race rather than do XC or road running is because I enjoy the additional requirements on self reliance and good preparation rather than just outright speed.

I am not saying we need to modernise fell running. I am saying we/you need to recognise that fell running as judged by FRA membership and race attendances has increased in popularity and today's fellrunners are different from 30 years ago. Different backgrounds, expectations,.. And the attitudes of external authorities have changed as well.

Personally I don't like racing with 500 other people (and I always train on my own on Ilkley Moor which I can see as I type and sometimes I see no other person at all on my run) but just because I have been fell running longer than most of the 7000 doesn't allow me to resent them wishing to share the experiences I have had for a couple of decades or the fact that they are now more likely to be refugees from road or trail running than shepherds.

I just do not accept the mystical "self-reliance" etc argument for most fell runners. I recognise your values but I think the 500 people who turn up for a Woodhead race over Haworth Moor to run in a crocodile just think it is more fun than running on concrete. Yet those 500 or the hundreds who applied for the Three Peaks Race in 36 hours are the modern face of fell running.

It is, as they say, a point of view.

I have done the odd thing for the sport but I am most pleased to have helped to save Ennerdale and Wasdale because to me they epitomise fellrunning. I don't wish to see them modernised and I would be surprised, to say the least, if Colin or Richard demand the carrying of mobile phones in the near future!

[Guick Dotto]

Scene: 21 mile 5500 feet Dockray Helvellyn race in 2002.

The RO Joe Faulkner at the start line said (and I summarise): "this is a serious fell race, there are NO marshalls, I assume you have all got the right kit, we are not going to come looking for you if you get lost, if you want to drop out- do it NOW, etc etc.

The runners didn't laugh, they just went very quiet.

Sometimes it is good for a RO to spell out a few home truths.

That's more the style. He didn't say " Now everybody hold your mobiles in the air so I can see them. That all looks good. You're safe to go now."

[Mud]

I would be surprised, to say the least, if Colin or Richard demand the carrying of mobile phones in the near future!

But isn't that the point though, Graham?

That races like Ennerdale or Wasdale will inevitably have to acquiesce to compulsory phones, because other organisers like Edale will have set the new safety standard?

[Graham Breeze]

But isn't that the point though, Graham?

That races like Ennerdale or Wasdale will inevitably have to acquiesce to compulsory phones, because other organisers like Edale will have set the new safety standard?

No! See my anecdote about Joe Faulkner. Joe was actually breaking some FRA Rules that day but he said "my race, your risk, over to you". And nobody went back to their car to go home.

[Wheeze]

I am not saying we need to modernise fell running. I am saying we/you need to recognise that fell running as judged by FRA membership and race attendances has increased in popularity and today's fellrunners are different from 30 years ago. Different backgrounds, expectations,.. And the attitudes of external authorities have changed as well.


I just do not accept the mystical "self-reliance" etc argument for most fell runners. I recognise your values but I think the 500 people who turn up for a Woodhead race over Haworth Moor to run in a crocodile just think it is more fun than running on concrete. Yet those 500 or the hundreds who applied for the Three Peaks Race in 36 hours are the modern face of fell running.

I don't see that time or numbers are relevant in this debate. Witness Golf or cricket. Major shifts (like recognising women) do have their impact but the underlying sport remains intrinsically the same no matter how many people want to do it....and they want to do it BECAUSE of the 'traditional' values the sport offers. It's the same principle as 'historical' preservation of fact. So called do-gooders are (successfully) trying to eradicate the teaching of the Holocaust for fear of offending Muslims without ever asking if Muslims are concerned about this. In our sport, the idea of embracing change because more (less well versed) participants are taking part is just as misplaced. People do fell racing because of its character: not because they hope the 'authorities' will dilute its character to make it safer/more acceptable etc etc.

[Deek]

What a great thread. Just got back to see it. Personally I'd rather run in a race organised by Selwyn Wright where 'if you can get to the race its on'. I think this kind of race will last far longer. H and S to the level we have it now is a result of living in the good times....drive to any race you fancy , buy any gear that you'd like to do it with. When the oil begins to run out we will look back on threads like this with amusement. I've always fancied myself aginst the sheep farmers.

[Graham Breeze]

I don't see that time or numbers are relevant in this debate. Witness Golf or cricket. Major shifts (like recognising women) do have their impact but the underlying sport remains intrinsically the same no matter how many people want to do it....and they want to do it BECAUSE of the 'traditional' values the sport offers. It's the same principle as 'historical' preservation of fact. So called do-gooders are (successfully) trying to eradicate the teaching of the Holocaust for fear of offending Muslims without ever asking if Muslims are concerned about this. In our sport, the idea of embracing change because more (less well versed) participants are taking part is just as misplaced. People do fell racing because of its character: not because they hope the 'authorities' will dilute its character to make it safer/more acceptable etc etc.

Wheeze,

You are putting arguments in my mouth that I have not uttered and then disageeing with them eg where did your last sentence come from!

All I am saying is that eg in November 1973 there were 337 FRA Members.There are now over 20 times as many.

Sure, many of the 50 fell races around in 1975 eg Fairfield, remain the same classics. But many of the 700 new ones are not! How could they be? Fell running is not inventing many "new" Wasdales.

So when the new or changed elements have taken over and dominate the sport... please recognise it.

It reminds me of the steam locomotive "Flying Scotsman" epitomising the nostalgia for steam. Great. Except that after 80 years not one single piece of the original engine is still there.

[Mud]

So called do-gooders are (successfully) trying to eradicate the teaching of the Holocaust for fear of offending Muslims without ever asking if Muslims are concerned about this.

I didn't have you down as a Daily Mail reader, Wheeze....

[Rodders rambler]

I think the OTT requirements has come in via the none running club race organisers,as well as the increased entry fees.When you have to pay out insurances for individual races instead of having a blanket cover club affiliated insurance,it must cost a fortune.Together with the fear of having claims,driving the insurance even higher.You can understand why they insist on having as many safety requirements as possible.When you have short trail races asking for map,compass,full body cover etc,you wonder where is it going to end ? This then becomes the norm amongst all races,club or privately run.
The appeal of fell running is surely that of freedom and small rule books.Why is the entry form disclaimer not worth the paper its written on ?
Will we have GPS chips,flares or ration packs ? ... i've seen a race requiring you carry at least 750ml of water !!!!
What will be next ??

[runningfool]

Why is the entry form disclaimer not worth the paper its written on ?

Because it's not you who is going to be suing the organisers in the event of your death, it's your next of kin or other dependants.