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Thread: Lakeland Classics Trophy

  1. #41
    Senior Member RaceTheSweeper's Avatar
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    Congratulations to Carl Bell for his brilliant win. Also super massive congratulations to our lovely Judith Jepson on the 1st Female win! Brilliant just blooming brilliant!!

  2. #42
    Master BillJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaceTheSweeper View Post
    Also super massive congratulations to our lovely Judith Jepson on the 1st Female win!
    With the highest score yet recorded by a FV50 :-)
    "And the winds blow and the sky looks cool / So I make my home in the clouds"

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by BillJ View Post
    Thanks to Brett, results from this year's Lakeland Classics Trophy are posted: http://www.lakelandclassicstrophy.or...s-2/trophy-17/

    56 people managed to complete the trophy this year, by racing 3 of the lakeland classics (including at least 2 of the super-long races).

    That's less than there was a decade or so ago (the 104 who achieved it in 2008 was the high water mark) but still represents more doing the lakeland classics than when the LCT was initiated by Graham and Brian 15 years ago (38 people completed the first ever trophy in 2002).

    Carl Bell's perfect score of 300 from 3 wins is only the 4th time its been achieved - Ricky Lightfoot (twice) and Rob Jebb being the others.

    If anyone spots any mistakes in the results, let me know.
    I would like to record my public thanks to Bill and Ben for carrying on the LCT. This was the 16th and, if people will forgive the cliché, in 2002 when Brian Martin and I launched the LCT to help support entries for a few years for Wasdale and Ennerdale we little thought...


    Bill is, of course, correct to note that completions are lower than they were, with 56 this year.

    The five 3 year average completions for the first 15 LCTs are: 33 - 73 - 91 - 94 - 72 but eg Wasdale and Ennerdale will always be tough races and I never expected the numbers of LCT completers to keep rising year after year. Whilst I believe these races are the pinnacle of fell running and the supreme test, nobody has to keep doing them every year to prove their man (or woman) hood.

    The fact is that there are now far more Long A races in the English Calendar than there have ever been - so there is just more choice. The growth and characteristics of races over the history of the FRA Calendar is something I have been looking at for a future submission for The Fellrunner and the very recent growth in Long A races is quite astonishing.

    So, 16 years ago I was writing for The Fellrunner about the need to "save" Long A races and now I can write about the veritable abundance. Ah the rich historical tapestry of fell running!
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  4. #44
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    Great work Bill
    Poacher turned game-keeper

  5. #45
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    Fantastic to see these races seemingly thriving...

    When I got into Fell running, it was the thought of competing in these races that really spurred me on. I share the same view as Graham, that these are the top of the tree when it comes to Fell racing (I can appreciate people having a different viewpoint though)...

    My ambition was always to be strong enough to qualify for the trophy every year. For various reasons (a great love for the big Welsh races such as Peris/1000's, clashes with other races, longer-distance ambitions for the future), I've not done these races justice... A single dnf at Wasdale, 1 Buttermere, 2 Borrowdale, 1 Langdale, no Three Shires, Duddon or (unforgivably) Ennerdale.

    It will be a couple of years until I've extinguished the ultra long distance bug, but in the words of that American general... "I shall return" and hopefully see myself on the Classics league table in future years. And I wouldn't miss the Buttermere champs race next year for anything....

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Travs View Post
    Fantastic to see these races seemingly thriving...

    When I got into Fell running, it was the thought of competing in these races that really spurred me on. I share the same view as Graham, that these are the top of the tree when it comes to Fell racing (I can appreciate people having a different viewpoint though)...

    My ambition was always to be strong enough to qualify for the trophy every year. For various reasons (a great love for the big Welsh races such as Peris/1000's, clashes with other races, longer-distance ambitions for the future), I've not done these races justice... A single dnf at Wasdale, 1 Buttermere, 2 Borrowdale, 1 Langdale, no Three Shires, Duddon or (unforgivably) Ennerdale.

    It will be a couple of years until I've extinguished the ultra long distance bug, but in the words of that American general... "I shall return" and hopefully see myself on the Classics league table in future years. And I wouldn't miss the Buttermere champs race next year for anything....
    Thank you.

    When Brian Martin and I (with support from Selwyn Wright) established the LCT we didn't know how it would work out. Some RO were indifferent and one wrote to tell us that he didn't agree with what we were doing, but since we were - he was enclosing a cheque! Since Brian and I were financing the LCT ourselves, whilst I didn't agree with his opposition to the LCT I felt it would be insulting to reject his money - so I cashed the cheque to spare his feelings.

    It was when the idea was copied by others that Brian and I thought the LCT would all work out fine, and it was when more people wanted to send us money to cover the cost of prizes etc that we knew it would.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  7. #47
    Master BillJ's Avatar
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    For those with ambitions on competing in the LCT 2018...

    As you probably know, we planned to 'rest' the three shorter (and largest entry) long races in turn - Langdale, Borrowdale and Three Shires. Which would have meant that Borrowdale would have been the non-counter this year.

    However with Buttermere Horseshoe being an English and British Championship race this year, it will be over-busy (perhaps over-subscribed?) with that. So Buttermere Horseshoe will be 'rested' from the trophy this year.

    That means that the LCT races 2018 are the same as they were for many years up to 2015:
    Borrowdale promoted to a super long, along with Duddon, Ennerdale and Wasdale; and Langdale and Three Shires as the 'shorter' longs.

    http://www.lakelandclassicstrophy.org.uk/
    "And the winds blow and the sky looks cool / So I make my home in the clouds"

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by BillJ View Post
    For those with ambitions on competing in the LCT 2018...

    As you probably know, we planned to 'rest' the three shorter (and largest entry) long races in turn - Langdale, Borrowdale and Three Shires. Which would have meant that Borrowdale would have been the non-counter this year.

    However with Buttermere Horseshoe being an English and British Championship race this year, it will be over-busy (perhaps over-subscribed?) with that. So Buttermere Horseshoe will be 'rested' from the trophy this year.

    That means that the LCT races 2018 are the same as they were for many years up to 2015:
    Borrowdale promoted to a super long, along with Duddon, Ennerdale and Wasdale; and Langdale and Three Shires as the 'shorter' longs.

    http://www.lakelandclassicstrophy.org.uk/
    FWIW this decision seems to me to be consistent with the reason why the LCT was established, ie to support low attendance Lakeland races, so good.
    "...as dry as the Atacama desert".

  9. #49
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    Thanks for the information and I understand the decision and Graham's reasoning.
    However I quite like the idea of knocking off a super-long and a champs race in one fell swoop. One less weekend away (for those of us not lakes based), one less car trip, one less potential for clash. This year Three Shires directly clashes with the champs race at Cautley, removing another potential race for people looking at both LCT and champs (both individually and from a team perspective. Which people will be).

    Last year Wasdale was both a LCT and English Championships counter. Will the decision to rest the Lakeland Classic (or 2 classics, as in 2016) that is used as an English Champs counter be consistent from now on?

    Do you have the data for bumps in entry to the Super-Longs when they are champs races? I see Wasdale had 233 finishers in 2017 (Eng Champs, good weather) as opposed to 94 in 2016 (non-champs, crap weather). I'd expect around the 200-230 mark for Buttermere this year.

    Far be it from me to mis-interpret Graham's baby, but I have come to see the LCT as both supporting low attendance Lakeland races, but also to support the tradition of racing Lakeland superlongs (especially Wasdale, Ennerdale and more recently Buttermere; my best Duddon time is ~15mins quicker than best Borrowdale, but it deserves protected super-long status for the first reason of supporting lakeland races).
    Were it solely about supporting poorly-attended Lakeland races then surely Lingmell Dash would be in (13 finishers last year despite the publicity of hosting a champs race a couple of years ago) - although this obviously younger so not as traditional as the big jobbas.

    Of course a champs race normally results in a faster winning time, so those further down the field see their LCT scores take a hit!

    (just a few thoughts from someone who was planning to use Buttermere as an LCT counter)
    Last edited by ba-ba; 09-01-2018 at 01:14 PM.
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  10. #50
    Master BillJ's Avatar
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    All good comments ba-ba.

    Our (Ben & I) belief in the raison d'etre for the LCT is much the same as yours - to keep the tradition of the long Lakeland races healthy. In particular to keep those half a dozen or so long races, each with their history, viable.
    We did have a lot of debate between the two of us before including Buttermere Horseshoe in the LCT from 2016. I was keen to include it, partly because it was originally a race with 'history' that had stopped being run and then reinstated, but also partly because it feels right to include it.
    We then debated about what to do with now having 7 races. That feels like it makes it a different beast. The set of half a dozen races is more compact. Hence the decision to rest the races that now get lots of runners anyway, in turn.

    So there's quite a bit of 'feels like' in that! We try to be consistent, but it is consistent with what 'feels right' to us, which is of course not the same as being consistent with logical guidelines - or even consistent with what feels right to anyone else!

    But my apologies for making you have to do an additional race rather than 'double-counting' Buttermere Horseshoe. ;-)
    It is a good point about being one less weekend away for those who do both championships.
    Last edited by BillJ; 10-01-2018 at 04:03 PM.
    "And the winds blow and the sky looks cool / So I make my home in the clouds"

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