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Thread: Using a gps as backup in race?

  1. #21
    Senior Member Brummy John's Avatar
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    This thread reminds me of my first job at 16.

    Calculators were just becoming commonplace, but the training person at work made us learn how to use a 'fuller slide rule' in case a calculator wasn't available. Those slide rules were not very accurate and easy to read wrongly.

    In fact the trainer was just stuck in his old world, everyone knew it except him. He was in denial that technology had moved on and in fact his way of doing things was, well, history. GPS units (e.g. Garmin 305 watch) can have whole routes (not just waypoints) programmed into them and can be followed quite easily. Memory map can do this. The watch beeps you if you go off course and shows the trace on the screen. Its open to everyone to use GPS (like it is fell shoes) and its not orienteering so I don't see how its cheating.

    You will want to have your slide rule (or map/compass) just in case, but why bother if you have a calculator (i.e. GPS) thats easier to use and more accurater, working even when the clag is down and you can see nowt?
    Biriani for endurance, pathia for speed.

  2. #22
    Senior Member end's Avatar
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    Quote Originally Posted by Brummy John View Post
    This thread reminds me of my first job at 16.

    Calculators were just becoming commonplace, but the training person at work made us learn how to use a 'fuller slide rule' in case a calculator wasn't available. Those slide rules were not very accurate and easy to read wrongly.

    In fact the trainer was just stuck in his old world, everyone knew it except him. He was in denial that technology had moved on and in fact his way of doing things was, well, history. GPS units (e.g. Garmin 305 watch) can have whole routes (not just waypoints) programmed into them and can be followed quite easily. Memory map can do this. The watch beeps you if you go off course and shows the trace on the screen. Its open to everyone to use GPS (like it is fell shoes) and its not orienteering so I don't see how its cheating.

    You will want to have your slide rule (or map/compass) just in case, but why bother if you have a calculator (i.e. GPS) thats easier to use and more accurater, working even when the clag is down and you can see nowt?
    If I want to get from A to B for business or shopping or... I might use a SUV.

    If I want to enjoy a fell race against like minded people... I don't.

  3. #23
    Master Marvin's Avatar
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    Quote Originally Posted by Brummy John View Post
    This thread reminds me of my first job at 16.

    Calculators were just becoming commonplace, but the training person at work made us learn how to use a 'fuller slide rule' in case a calculator wasn't available. Those slide rules were not very accurate and easy to read wrongly.
    Yes, but what happens when you make an error keying in the numbers? The reason for learning how to do calculations long hand (forget slide rules) is so that you know roughly what answer to expect and if you get one wildly different, you know you've made a mistake.

    It's a similar thing with marine navigation. There is nothing wrong with making use of the technology, but you shouldn't follow it blindly, in fact there are recorded instances of boats colliding at headlands or buoys because they all set up the same waypoint in their GPS and ignore the other critical things like keeping a good lookout!. Even with satellite navigation systems, being able to manage without is vital - who knows when the Americans will switch their satellites off or your batteries will go flat?

    I love the GPS technology when I'm out on the hills and when I get back home to download my route and see where I have actually been, but when it really matters, it's a check, not a substitute for knowing where you are.

  4. #24
    Grandmaster IanDarkpeak's Avatar
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    My comments in red...
    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
    Yes, but what happens when you make an error keying in the numbers? The reason for learning how to do calculations long hand (forget slide rules) is so that you know roughly what answer to expect and if you get one wildly different, you know you've made a mistake.
    I agree with Marvin, Like computers .They are only as clever as the person who put the info in
    It's a similar thing with marine navigation. There is nothing wrong with making use of the technology, but you shouldn't follow it blindly, in fact there are recorded instances of boats colliding at headlands or buoys because they all set up the same waypoint in their GPS and ignore the other critical things like keeping a good lookout!. Even with satellite navigation systems, being able to manage without is vital - who knows when the Americans will switch their satellites off or your batteries will go flat?
    Not really relevant to a running forum but it is a cardinal rule (No sailing pun intended ) that you don't use navigational bouys as way points as all you do is crash in to them, and some of them are very big and hard enough to sink a decent sized yacht
    I love the GPS technology when I'm out on the hills and when I get back home to download my route and see where I have actually been, but when it really matters, it's a check, not a substitute for knowing where you are.
    There is no substitution for knowing where you are and been able to use a map and compass. As IainR says I have a gps which I mainly use for MR work, this isn't because I don't know how to map read but because you can use it to mark your route (and time) over a search area and if you come across a casualty in stead of sitting down to work out an 8 fig grid ref for your location you can be helping the cas.

    I would never use my GPS in a fell race but I could see the relevance of having it with you for an emergency on a long wild route. esp on something like the HPM where navigation in extreme condition could lead you astray. but if you don't think you are able to navigate the course you shouldn't really be there.

  5. #25
    Master Stolly's Avatar
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    Quote Originally Posted by Brummy John View Post
    This thread reminds me of my first job at 16.

    Calculators were just becoming commonplace, but the training person at work made us learn how to use a 'fuller slide rule' in case a calculator wasn't available. Those slide rules were not very accurate and easy to read wrongly.

    In fact the trainer was just stuck in his old world, everyone knew it except him. He was in denial that technology had moved on and in fact his way of doing things was, well, history. GPS units (e.g. Garmin 305 watch) can have whole routes (not just waypoints) programmed into them and can be followed quite easily. Memory map can do this. The watch beeps you if you go off course and shows the trace on the screen. Its open to everyone to use GPS (like it is fell shoes) and its not orienteering so I don't see how its cheating.

    You will want to have your slide rule (or map/compass) just in case, but why bother if you have a calculator (i.e. GPS) thats easier to use and more accurater, working even when the clag is down and you can see nowt?
    And another thing; no taking calculators with you on fell races!!!! Or slide rules come to that. In fact no doing of maths at all.

  6. #26
    Senior Member No map, no compass's Avatar
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    Quote Originally Posted by Ady In Accy View Post
    The electronic compas emulation is just that, a big thick arrow pointing the way and a distance countdown. No other map info displayed. I guess all devices vary but that's how I set mine up for the checkpoints.

    I can forsee an end to the use of traditional map and compas though in years to come, it's bound to happen and will be another art form lost.
    But the big difference is that your GPS tells you exactly where you are and where the checkpoint is and gives you a bearing from one to the other. If you only have a map and compass then you have to work out where you are and then get a bearing, which has considerable scope for error, and is never going to be that accurate, whilst you GPS will get you to within 10m or so of where you want to be. Though of course it might take you over a cliff in the meantime if you haven't looked at a map .

  7. #27
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    I am new to this fell running lark.

    And I've just lost interest in the whole flippin thing!

  8. #28
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    Quote Originally Posted by Apedale View Post
    I am new to this fell running lark.

    And I've just lost interest in the whole flippin thing!
    There's a chap in my local running club that is an okay runner (albeit he struggles massively when hills and off road are involved) who lurves technology. He has a small lap top (well big watch) strapped to his wrist even on club training nights. The thing is its all part of his interest in running and if it helps him enjoy his hobby then why not? For me, I enjoy running rather than measuring myself running and enjoy solo navigation (with the odd bit of extreme survival effortlessly thrown in) without the involvement of global positioning satellites.

    But who's to say I'm not the freak?

  9. #29

    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    ....I am not new to this fell running larky and after some thought have something to say. Ask how many in car navigation systems put you in the ocean, a field or someones garden when you know that you are sitting in your conservatory with a cup of 'Quickbrew'. Extrapolate.

  10. #30
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    Re: Using a gps as backup in r

    I've got a bad feeling about where this could all end...
    "Help my battery's gone flat", the electronic version of the prat on the Duddon a couple of years ago, lost with no map and shouting help.
    Do you think we should carry map and compass as backup for GPS?
    Maybe we could just stand under a cold shower , a big fan and a virtual reality hat, bah humbug, did my profile mention I was 98 years old?

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