Fell Running First Aid

[Guick Dotto]

My point was derived from my training when I remember people (me) trying to be clever and getting really stressed whilst the bleedin' obvious was neglected. The first aiders I've tried to learn from are the ones who manage to keep the morale boosting spiel going as this could well be the single thing that makes the difference in the hills when a long wait in the cold can turn an innocuous case nasty.

[AllanT]

so should all fell races have first responders dotted round the course with AED's and a trauma pack? a simple first aid cert and mountain rescue back up should be all that be required at maximum.

Were we disputing that??? But whilst you are waiting for the mtn rescue what are you doing??

And contrary to being the maximum backup a simple first aid certificate and mountain rescue back up should be the minimum requirement. As for AED's and first responders dotted around the course it wouldn't be practical, but if you have the skills and the resources why shouldn't you be deploying them in appropriate cases??

And if you have marshals at various points why not have them adequately trained and resourced to react to different situations? Like what is the point in having a first aider who needs to deal with for example hypothermia if they don't have sufficient resources to deal with that hypothermia without putting themselves and/or the casualty at risk??

[philgreen1968]

I think it boils down to personal responsibility, having a bivy bag etc in case the conditions turn bad.
We are up in mountains and if you take a lob climbing you prepare to bounce or deck out.
so with fell running you prepare to get a bit cold or get very cold.
So the answer is nope, marshalls should need enough nouce to get help and anything else is a bargain.
we're mountain people and we have to personally take responsabilty
its the personal responsibility we need to work on rather than the " your responsible" ethic. s*** im starting to sound like david cameron. a moot point has to be reached over marshals as guides or marshals as nanny state. if youwant to pay private companies to give you extra supprt so be it just dont push small local events into following you. especially when there already covered with good non compulsory als/atls/ voluntary cover.
ps i probably have better medcal cover at my race than in the local dgh a+e

[AllanT]

I think it boils down to personal responsibility, having a bivy bag etc in case the conditions turn bad.
We are up in mountains and if you take a lob climbing you prepare to bounce or deck out.
so with fell running you prepare to get a bit cold or get very cold.
So the answer is nope, marshalls should need enough nouce to get help and anything else is a bargain.
we're mountain people and we have to personally take responsabilty
its the personal responsibility we need to work on rather than the " your responsible" ethic. s*** im starting to sound like david cameron. a moot point has to be reached over marshals as guides or marshals as nanny state. if youwant to pay private companies to give you extra supprt so be it just dont push small local events into following you. especially when there already covered with good non compulsory als/atls/ voluntary cover.
ps i probably have better medcal cover at my race than in the local dgh a+e

We are not talking about "nanny state, blah deh blah, etc, etc", what we are talking about is equipping the marshals with the skills to deal with situations they may be presented with - which is only fair for them, and enhances the probability of any serious conditions being recognised and appropriately dealt with so that the casualty survives to make it to their gold standard place of care.

Do you think it is fair to put marshals out to potentially deal with situations that they have not been trained to deal with? Without wanting to put more of a burden on anyone who chooses to marshal, but is it not better to give them immediate care skills rather than leave them to "just get on with it" if something happens. How do they recognise the difference between something minor, something major, and something relatively minor which could deteriorate into a far worse situation if it is not dealt with??? Should we not be equipping them with the knowledge to persuade reluctant runners that for example it is best for them to pull out of the race than blunder on?

I am not sure what your local DGH A+E is like, but somehow I doubt you have better resources at your local race than at the A+E - or is it just a MIU? You may have skilled individuals at the race, but without their equipment they are not able to do much more than any normal first aid trained marshal.

I am not disputing that the individual runner should not be responsible for themselves, and I don't know why you got the impression that I thought any different? However it could be said to be as equally irresponsible for the organisers to expect the mtn rescue services to bail them out all the time - so shouldn't they at least be taking some steps to ensure that some form of support is there for them?

[philgreen1968]

I agree, marshals should be prepared so lets just stop before i spontaniously go into svt and fall off my computer stool.
(as for the A+E thing well we've a lot of senior medics in our club, as well as a few nurses and paramedics. and yes skills without kit, much use as chocolate fire guards. perhaps laphroig and the forum late at night should not be mixed)