Barack Obama

[CL]

[QUOTE=Wheeze;162891]They weren't contradictions. They were the gathering up and restatement of the positive values that flowed from the founding principles of that nation, that have been refined in the light of experience.[QUOTE]

The founding principles were Capitalism and individual rights, not Socialism and Collectivism.

Experience? What the fact that Socialism has failed in every country that's tried it. But that won't stop Obama trying it.

May be I'm wrong about Obama, but from the things he's been saying I don't have much hope.

[Wheeze]

I'm very wary of 'isms'. Obama's rallying call was to the best of the characteristics of a multi-cultural youthful society. Our hackneyed european labels don't fit that too well.

[Muddy Retriever]

[QUOTE=

Experience? What the fact that Socialism has failed in every country that's tried it. But that won't stop Obama trying it.

.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Obama is also said to have extreme protectionist economic policies. That will not be good for the world economy. It could provoke retaliatory action from other countries. If everybody adopts such an approach there is no more sure fire way of turning a global slump into a deep depression, as in the 1930's. It will be interesting to note the view of those world leaders who are currently lauding Obama in a year or two's time.

On the other hand a less gung-ho and unilateralist American foreign and military policy would be welcome.

[CL]

Exactly. Obama is also said to have extreme protectionist economic policies. That will not be good for the world economy. It could provoke retaliatory action from other countries. If everybody adopts such an approach there is no more sure fire way of turning a global slump into a deep depression, as in the 1930's. It will be interesting to note the view of those world leaders who are currently lauding Obama in a year or two's time.

On the other hand a less gung-ho and unilateralist American foreign and military policy would be welcome.

Some good points Muddy. I don't have any objections to America going to war if another is threatening it I.e. Iran. In the case of Iraq, it wasn't a threat to America at that time.

If Tony Blair had said to me that he was invading Iraq for the oil, I would have supported the war. But to go to war with the goal of changing the regime without any idea of WHAT regime, was a very bad mistake. One by the way that has helped bring about the credit crunch.

[Mud]

I've got my optimism back again.

"Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive, but to be young was very heaven"

Some good points Muddy

No problem, Chrissie-baby.

[crowhill]

If Tony Blair had said to me that he was invading Iraq for the oil, I would have supported the war

And you want people to take your opinions seriously?

[Grouse]

Might is right.

[Grouse]

Chris, how is Iran threatening America?

[CL]

And you want people to take your opinions seriously?

Well it was worth a minute of your time. It must have been THAT important.

Anyway I'll explain what I mean. Oil reserves exist in various places around the world. Without those technologies, that lead to the discovery and use for the oil, it would still be in the ground.

It was western freedom( mainly American, but British as well) that resulted in the uses for oil.

In the 1940/50s American, British and French scientists discovered oil in those middle eastern countries. Then in exchange for contract rights we agreed to extract it. Realising the great value of this thick, black stuff, prompted those countries(Saudi Arabia etc), to nationalise our oil fields.

That was a long time ago, but we allowed them to get away with it, and we've been paying ever since. As far as the oil rights are concerned, those middle eastern countries have no rights. How can a government demand 'rights' when they don't even recognise the rights of their own people.(This last applies to us, but not to the same extent)

Rights don't exist in those countries, so we should stop pretending that they're civilised, and go and get what is 'rightfully' ours.

[CL]

Chris, how is Iran threatening America?

I would consider government sponsored anti-Americanism as a threat in itself.