Beginners' Meets?

[NirvanaBliss]

OUCH! Stolly, maybe men need a man type sports bra.

I was adding here to thank you Piglet for arranging this, i shall email you my email address, incase you wanted to contact me sooner.

[IanDarkpeak]

Originally Posted by Stolly
Full body cramps, knife stabbingly horrendous cramp in your calves, dehydration, legs collapsing underneath you, not being able to move at all at the end but just lying there groaning, taking 20 minutes to bend your body sufficiently to get in your car to go home, hypothermia, double vision, full frontal body grazes, chaffage above and beyond human endurance, bleeding nipples, falls on rocks, falls in bogs, falls in rivers, crashes descending, mud up to your neck, twisted ankles, frozen hands, hit by falling rubble, near misses from dislodged boulders............ (and so on and so on).

sounds like a 3 peaks race to me

[stevefoster]

Originally Posted by Stolly
Full body cramps, knife stabbingly horrendous cramp in your calves, dehydration, legs collapsing underneath you, not being able to move at all at the end but just lying there groaning, taking 20 minutes to bend your body sufficiently to get in your car to go home, hypothermia, double vision, full frontal body grazes, chaffage above and beyond human endurance, bleeding nipples, falls on rocks, falls in bogs, falls in rivers, crashes descending, mud up to your neck, twisted ankles, frozen hands, hit by falling rubble, near misses from dislodged boulders............ (and so on and so on).

sounds like a 3 peaks race to me

Sounds like the first 10 minutes of any run i do
Once i've warmed up and got through all that, i start to enjoy it a bit!!!
Must go, running to work, here come them first 10 minutes again

[southernsoftie]

Why do people think that

However, there are plenty of social runs and shorter recces. Maybe by virtue of it being called a recce people think that it's going to be full on race pace?

This isn't the case.

The pace is that of the slowest....any speed demons getting chilly waiting are encouraged to do hill reps!

Very true. The other great thing about fell-running is the number of stiles/gates/walls (only if off route and no-one's looking, of course) to cross. Ideal time for the faster runners to catch breath/drink/chat whilst waiting for those at the back (not too sure about hill reps Emms). Believe me having been both at the front and the back depending on my mood/fitness, there's no shame in coming from behind (oo-er), and if you do get a chance to look about while you're waiting, it gives you a rare opportunity to take in the country around you which you don't tend to do in a race or a hard training session, where your field of vision is restricted to 4-15ft ahead of you. So everyone's a winner!

just wanted to say, i have been on recces, with the more experienced and was petrified thinking i would be left all alone and would feel useless. But they were nothing like that, they were nice gentle pace with everyone chatting and enjoying it.

Main thing about recces or other training runs is to get familiar with a route and/or get miles/ft of climb under your legs. This doesn't necessarily mean speed. There are no doubt groups of runners that finish high up in races, who, if out on a 'slow' training run would have lesser runners on the verge of collapse. Either get to know a group of runners who you know run at a manageable pace, or consider a beasting at the hands of the pros an excellent training session. Just not one to be completed often. (I remember one of my first times out with my club after I joined, I was conned into going with the fast group! Nearly killed me. But survived and probably a better runner for it).

The trouble with trying to 'learn' things is that if you're not careful you can get all po faced and nerdy about it. I personally prefer the get up in the hills and run philosophy and just see what happens.

Exactly - just do it! You can think about these things too much. All that will do is give you time to think of reasons not to.

Before this thread sinks here's what I propose given that there is some level of interest...

I'll crank this thread up again nearer the proposed date and see if we can get something together.

OK that's enough for now.

Maybe start a couple of threads with dates in mind and see who's free to do what?

Maybe we should mark up individual recce threads with a speed/distance rating? E.g. Slow/Short, Medium/Short, Fast/Long?

Once my knee's fixed (have I mentioned I've got a dodgy knee?) I'll reinstate my Pendle Perambulation thread with some new dates. This is definitely medium paced at best but because of number of stiles, and the fact it doesn't ever go too far from the start/finish point (giving a tired runner ample opportunity to head home early) would definitely be manageable for a beginner. This would probably be Medium/Medium, (10min/mi, c12mi), but with chance for beginners to go home at 6mi if they want.

[southernsoftie]

Wow, quite a long post that!

[emmilou]

Wow, quite a long post that!

It was! Working from home again then?!!

I like the idea of marking it up with Med/Long etc..Slow/quick etc although another persons quick is another persons slow

[southernsoftie]

It was! Working from home again then?!!

How'd you guess? Been good though, it has been off since I posted. Breaking for a well earned (?) lunch!

I like the idea of marking it up with Med/Long etc..Slow/quick etc although another persons quick is another persons slow

True, but I'm sure over time we'd get to know each other's paces. Initially then it still comes down to biting the bullet and getting stuck in: you don't know if you don't try.

If you made it known to whoever you're looking to join that it is your first time, or you're still finding your feet, then I'm sure most people would either be prepared to make allowances and encourage you round; or be honest enough to say "actually it might be a bit too quick/tough for you".

[The Piglit]

I was adding here to thank you Piglet for arranging this, i shall email you my email address, incase you wanted to contact me sooner.

Uh-oh possible heffalump trap!



And it's Piglit not Piglet for thats how my hero spelled his name in the books (see avatar with magnifying glass) but no offence taken!


Also I think that PACE per-se is not the issue, as said before it's rather experience and skills.

There are, within the broad category of beginner going to be variety of people from those (like Al Fowler?) who are young and have potential for genuine athletic performance and those (of whom I am not the only one) who are middle aged fell walkers who have none. However we will all have something to learn - I don't have a clue about running downhill for example.

And finally - Fell Running is a long game surely? I am sure the seasoned members will confirm that to build up the stamina and strength to do long runs over the toughest terrain takes years. A beginner at this is not like a beginner at road fun running.

Oh that's enough woffle back to work.

[southernsoftie]

And finally - Fell Running is a long game surely? I am sure the seasoned members will confirm that to build up the stamina and strength to do long runs over the toughest terrain takes years. A beginner at this is not like a beginner at road fun running.

And finally - Fell Running is a long game surely? I am sure the seasoned members will confirm that to build up the stamina and strength to do long runs over the toughest terrain takes years. A beginner at this is not like a beginner at road fun running.

I'm no expert, buuuuuuuut...

Not too sure about this one. Number of factors in play I'd say. I can only go off my own experience of making the transition to fell-running (within the last 12 months).

When I first got into fell running, I found the distance I was able to do on the road translated to not too far short the equivalent distance in the hills - on club training runs I could keep up with middle of pack. Everyone else might have been chatting quite happily up the hills whilst I was struggling for air, but I kept up. These runs worked as described above: every few stiles the fast ones would wait for the slower; or a fast group would go one way, a slow group for injured, race recovery - or just plain slow, like me! - would go another way.

One of the big differences was lack of technique ascending/descending - which is where you'll lose speed on an old-hand of equal fitness. You may also find you suffer more after a fell-race over the same distance you could cover on the road very easily, because parts of the body you never knew existed are being worked hard for the very first time, or muscles you use when running are being used in different ways, or harder. One of the most surprising pains I found early on was the tendons on the soles of my feet: I could hardly walk.

I went from running 3.5-5mi on road 5 times a week to this plus incorporating one or two 90min session on the hills toward the back end of last year, before my injury (have I told you the one about my knee...). Last year I only entered three races...all AL (I think?): Pendle Cloughs, Three Shires, Tour of Pendle. I did alright. Never troubling the front runners, but got round without MRT coming out to look for me, and enjoyed them all, at least in retrospect. Three Shires was a dodgy one, but that was a hydration problem (i.e. I wasn't doing it!)

Obviously it's horses for courses, but I reckon most people should be able to get from running 1mi to doing doing 5 sessions of 3.5-5mi within a few months no problem (assuming they've got the time to commit).

This is the point that I made the jump to the fells but reckon it can be done sooner. Once you've gone a couple of months with a long fell session in your training mix each week too (i.e. go on a recce or join a club and go on their training runs), I reckon an AL run would be doable.

If you're comparing yourself to the really quick guys, then this would need loads more miles in the hills under your belt, but then the years would also begin to count I reckon, as you perfect your technique and pacing over time.

Years might count for some of the ultra-longs too (Fellsman, or a BG attempt etc.) which would obviously require more commitment and a heck of a lot more miles/ft of climb to be completed. You may also need to factor in experience of things like mountain navigation? (This is where I get out of my depth. Only here, I here you say!)

Sorry for another long post (distracting myself from working from home again, as Emms spotted above), but in summary (at last) it shouldn't take that long to be able to get around an AL course safely, and for you to be able to enjoy it...though the enjoyment factor is always questionable!!

[XRunner]

I don't have a clue about running downhill for example.

That makes you an expert at this difficult task.

The more you know about downhill running.....the slower you will get!