Flat foot and insoles

[Andrew66]

Oh dear i appear to be getting old!
My left foot is getting flat and thus caused a suprisingly painful knee through inflamation of the tendon that sits on the front boney part of the knee, in this case the front right hand side below the kneecap of my left leg. I saw a physio who gave me some supportive insoles. I was thinking of visiting a specialist clinic who would observe my gait and make up the "proper insoles". As you will all have experianced a prolonged time away from hill running especially this time of year is somewhat distressing (to put it mildly). Do i have to resign myself to wearing insoles, has anyone had similar problem and can offer advice?

TA

[MorganW]

I have had flat feet since I was a kid and, prior to getting orthotics, I suffered a range of knee related problems, including having much grief with the patellar tendon, which seems to be your current problem. The flat feet cause the body weight to slide over onto the inside of the foot and this twists the tendon just under the knee.

My own problem is made mush worse by the fact that both my tibs and fibs are sligtly bent (curved). The middle of the bones must have carried on growing after the ends of the bones fused in my late teens. The result is a slight bend and this makes the weight slide over even further onto the inside of the foot, collapsing the arch.

My orthotics are off the peg but still not cheap. When I first put them in my ordinary shoes, I immediately felt the pressure come off the patellar tendon and I have suffered no problems with the tendon since that time.

By many accounts, I am a lucky because there a tales a plenty of folk struggling with orthotics/insoles/inserts.

There is a school of thought that says these devices are of no benefit to the off road runner. The logic is that the foot lands in so many different ways (unlike a road runner say) that the device can't work properly.

The theory of that may be right but I very rarely run on the roads and do almost all of my running off road. I cannot run without these contraptions so the theory doesn't work for me. (I guess thast isn't quite true; I cannot run with out them and not get quite badly injured is the truth).

So you may be in this for the long haul like I am, but I have learned to live with them, experimenting with different types of shoe to take the orthotic (mine are full length which gives some problems).

My orthotics keep me on the hills and fells and I am grateful for that. If I have them for ever more, which I fully expect to do with my problems, it's a small price to pay.

[ZootHornRollo]

BGSec, cheers for that, I've alaso been struggling with kneecap pain and shin splints - both of which apparently can be caused by arch-collapse and / or over-pronation (although according to the running shoe shop, I'm only a 'mild pronator').

I bought some 'superfeet' insoles but have been slack about using them, for exactly the reason you mention ('no point off-road'). As I'm now struck down with a very tender kneecap and shin splints again, I might well give them another go ...

[MorganW]

I didn't discount the "no use off road" theory, because for some it may be right.

I just know from painful experience that it isn't true for me; I will get injured again if I run without the orthos.

I even wear them in my work shoes so the only time I'm without them is when I wear slippers, sandals and flip flops.

Have another go and persevere because they might do the trick; I still get wicked foot cramps from my orthos in certain shoes (Salamon Speedcross for instance, where there is some arch support already there) but I know that it will wear off in 10-15 minutes or so, even if it makes me want to yell and swear when it comes on. Best plan is to warm up well and even do some walking in the shoes before racing, particularly if it has a steep uphill start!

[ZootHornRollo]

I tried them in my inov8s once (terrocs) and rolled my ankle a few times, and thought it might have been because the insole had raised my ankle.

But then it might just have been because I was starting off and my ankles hadn't got used to the terrain.

[MorganW]

Ankle rolling is a big problem.

I had always used Walshes until the orthos came along but a full length ortho with the depth of mine would not fit sensibly into a PB Trainer never mind a PB Racer.

I used the PB Ultra Extreme quite successfully, because the insole pulls out, but as time went on, I got more and more ankle roll with these until the situation when contouring became hard to deal with. Much swearing and related angst.

The Mudclaw 270 and 330 both take my orthos quite well but I find the 270 a better fit and tend to use these most. And have found them both comfortable and hard wearing.

I recently had another go in my old PB Ultra Extremes and they felt way too big so I have moved down half a size and tried again. I went round Fairfield in the new pair last Sunday and they were OK except when contouring, when there was still too much sliding about of the foot.

They will be Ok for shorter races where there is no contouring.

The Salomon Speedcross take the orthotic best of all and I have used these shoes on some long and super long races quite successfully; Wasdale last year for instance, where pure grip is not necessarily at a premium (well not for me anyway!)

It can be a struggle to get the right combination of support, grip and comfort. They say everything shoe-wise becomes a compromise once you have orthos but that's no reason not to try and get the best possible combination for you, assuming you can afford to keep trying and testing.

[ZootHornRollo]

all good info, ta

I struggle with most models of Inov8 anyway cos of v wide forefoot / bunions. Mudclaws and Roclites both felt too narrow in the shop - though it's sometimes hard to tell how much an upper will give with wear.

As a result, I think I'm settled on Wave Harriers as my fell shoe of choice, even though the sole might not be aggressive enough for the fast steep wet stuff...

[MorganW]

Yes, I have a pair of Wave Harriers also, which are fine with my orthos and pretty comfy too.

But when I come to choose between them and the Salomons, I tend to chose the S's because they are so wonderfully comfortable to run in.

Best of luck with the Mizuno.

[Derby Tup]

I struggle with most models of Inov8 anyway cos of v wide forefoot / bunions. Mudclaws and Roclites both felt too narrow in the shop - though it's sometimes hard to tell how much an upper will give with wear.

As a result, I think I'm settled on Wave Harriers as my fell shoe of choice, even though the sole might not be aggressive enough for the fast steep wet stuff...

ZHR, have you looked at the Roclite 305? I've had or got Mudroc 290s, Roclite 305 and 315 plus Mudclaw 330 and the 305 seems much wider than the others. Tops are relatively soft too with plenty of give in them

[ZootHornRollo]

Ta DT, I'll give em a whirl

I just need something that's a wide fit with an aggressive sole

I ran the AW in terrocs and they were fine, but it was bone-dry

I figured the wave harriers would be comfy and good for Duddon but I literally just got them through and my normal size are pinching - but could go up a half-size.