League fixtures are out, will soon be that time again.
Bought some spikes this year, taking it seriously!
Not seen a venue for the National yet though.
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League fixtures are out, will soon be that time again.
Bought some spikes this year, taking it seriously!
Not seen a venue for the National yet though.
The National is at Weston Park, Shifnal this year on 24th February.
As much as i'd love to... i take all the training and advice my club can throw at me, they enter us into all the major championship races for free, and we even get "bonuses" if we run well enough in certain races.... all for not much more than what a month at a posh gym would cost... the very least i can do is turn out for them when needed.
I'm careful not to get too embedded into all the club culture, but with your level of talent you stand to gain considerably. With my old bones I need to have the freedom to come and go as I please or I'll just end up injured.
Midlands Cross Country Relays today at the always decent Aldersley Park in Wolverhampton.
6km of generally decent ground considering the recent weather, ranging from slightly rough field, to disused railway line muddy "trail", to good running on the grass near the leisure centre. What i particularly like about this venue is the numerous changes underfoot.... coming up a steep bank, onto good running on the railway line, then onto the slosh of a muddy field, then back to good stuff.
I went out on the opening leg today, and benefitted from having a large field to chase.... positing up 22:14 (although it was a couple of hundred metres short of the advertised 6km).
Pushed on well on the 2nd lap and made at least half a dozen places.
Both our teams were a little understrength today, however we were 9th senior team and my masters team were 7th. Had we thrown all our eggs in the masters basket we would've had a medalling team, but our fastest v35's were used in the senior team instead.
First time i've ever worn spikes today... having always previously worn fell shoes... i am converted!
By far and away my best ever XC run today.... whether i just had a freakishly good run, or it was a bit early in the season for my clubmates, but i was matching (and beating) some of the guys i would class in the next bracket up in the club.... ie decent club runners who are regularly capable of 5km times comfortably in the 17's on the road.
Proof will be if i can live with them in a few weeks at the first league race. I certainly put the effort in today... recorded a new max heart rate, and my watch has advised me to take 3.5 days rest!
Great run Travs (having seen the results). Definitely your best xc result.
Spikes / Fell Shoes - all depends on the course.
I have fond memories of Fitz Park Keswick for a few Mid lancs events back in the noughties. Some stunning views of Skiddaw from the back field, but the option to run down the back of the course along the river on a gravel track if sporting fell shoes. Must have been 600-800m a lap so ditched the spikes there.
Retired now, as I begrudge the EA affiliation each year.
Well done Travs - will look out for the results.
After Birmingham University once again completely obliterated some very strong competition in the first Birmingham League fixture on saturday, a fierce debate erupted in the Godiva Car Park last night....
That of course being the appearance of university clubs in the various XC leagues.
Taking just one example from B'ham Uni.... the race winner, Will Barnicote, helped his club Aldershot get within seconds of a gold medal at the recent National XC Relays... so shouldn't he be turning out in the league for them? Many similar examples across the results. Ditto Loughborough Uni and their Olympic Academy, who similarly dominated for a good part of the previous decade.
The older coaches and team managers are adamant this shouldn't be happening and club runners should be running for their clubs.
I'm a bit more 50/50 on the subject. Whilst i generally agree with their argument, having Loughborough, Birmingham (and indeed Warwick) Universities in the mix with some great teams like Tipton, Birchfield et al.... enhances the prestige of the league as one of the "best in the country".
And also gives young athletes the chance of regular good quality competition, when they might not be able to afford the expense of travelling home for a bread-and-butter league fixture.
To prevent civil war breaking out in the Cov Godiva car park, a compromise was proposed.... Let the Uni's race, but either they are con-competitive (i don't think this will work or they'll likely just not bother to race at all).... or have separate medals, top 3 in the league, and top 3 clubs.
I wonder what the die-hard XC guys such as GazB and WP think on this one....?
Whilst not a die-hard XC guy, I did do 7 seasons in the Birmingham XC league - starting when there were 5 divisions.
I'm also a bit 50/50 on the subject; it doesn't seem right that you can be competing at top level for one club one week, and then a different one a few weeks later. At the same time, if this was not allowed then the league would be weaker - possibly a lot weaker.
At this stage I should declare that I plied my trade in the lower leagues, racing in div 5,4,3 and 2 but never 1. It therefore never had an effect on our club position, as the Uni clubs were all in Div 1.
One attractive feature of the Birmingham league was, and I believe still is, that all the divisions race together in the first race. This was useful in telling you where a top 10 finish in Div 5 put you in the grand scale of things which in my case, (on a one short, three long laps course with six stream crossings), was never being lapped.
If I had to vote on the issue, Id probably vote to keep it as it is. I believe that competing against the best and getting better is more useful than finishing higher in the league
For me, cross-country was something I did when I wanted a race and there was no orienteering or fell race available (although actually there were occasions when I did XC on a Saturday and then orienteering on the Sunday). But if I had been a die-hard XC runner as an undergraduate, I would have been pretty upset if I wasn't able to run competitive races for my university club 400 miles from home. Even having to travel from Birmingham to Aldershot for a XC fixture (as in Travs' example) seems a bit much.
This is usually the case. Although this year the opening fixture (at Cheltenham) was Div 1 & 2 only. Although still over 500 runners.
Although the results were a complete shambles as i understand they tried to use separate finish funnels for each division, and that was never going to end well with hundreds of wrecked runners crowding across the line.
Hi Travs. I've just moved back to Staffs Moorlands this year, who no longer compete in the Birmingham league. So, for the 1st time in 25 years, I wasn't involved in the opening weekend. I competed in Division 1 for all but one of those years, so have had Birmingham and Loughborough in my race for 24 seasons, plus Warwick a couple of those years. Apart from making me feel old, it's worth noting that those students who are in a club that competes in the Birmingham League, still have to compete for their club, and the same for the Midland Women's League (my step daughter competed for Wolves last year despite having started at Loughborough). But I never really had a issue with the Unis competing. And going back to the late 90s and 2000s, there were some years when the Unis weren't that strong at all and Tipton and Birchfield and Cov and Stoke and Staffs Moorlands and Wolves were stronger at times. So it does come in cycles.
Hi Gaz,
Yes i noticed on facebook you were with Staffs Moorlands.... i wondered if this was just for the fells (relays etc), and if you were still with W&B.
Now i know....!
Travs - I think the system is OK in general and the leagues have differing rules.
WPette was a decent cross country runner and went to Bangor. The North Wales league then had rules such as:
No guest runners.
Only first claim runners could count for the team.
Had she been allowed to run as a guest, I still think it would have been tad awkward, sometimes travelling 2 hours and trying to blag a lift from the Uni mates, Menai or Eryri runners.
Had the league allowed 2nd claim to count, that would have been better for her and that could be a change enforced by UKA to all leagues, but it's not currently on the tables as far as I know.
And my daughter had received a £1500 bursary for her running ability and felt she should be running for the Uni, so resigned her 1st claim at Blackburn and joined Bangor Uni 1st claim.
Some leagues allow Uni runners to maintain their home 1st claim and have Uni as 2nd claim.
County Cross Country rules allow Uni students studying in the County to run in that County Champs and also represent at Inters if selected.
It is a team event really, and in my dealings at county and local league I've always approached it to try and help athletes have a better chance of being part of a team, such as the move to allow U20s to count as seniors in our leagues and County Champs.
U20s are often billy no mates in races :D
I have one issue, that's abuse of that offer for University students. I have known athletes go to Loughborough College and run as Loughborough Uni in the XC league.
Maybe it's OK and they have a joint running club , but it seemed suspect to me.
I'm sure there are a few "loopholes" used to boost the Uni team ranks.
That is something that should be better managed.
All the sports clubs at Loughborough are "Loughborough Students xxxxxxx Club" rather than "Loughborough University xxxxxxx Club". So the Loughborough runners in the XC league are members of the Loughborough Students Athletics Club; they are not running for Loughborough University.
Whether it's an abuse to have a single club open to members of more than one educational institution in a town, I will leave to you to decide.
All clear. It would only be an abuse if the members of LUAC are using the dispensations given to University Running Clubs in a way i which they are not supposed to be used.
Can you imagine if similar systems operated in the big cities?
Manchester Students Athletics Club for example?
2nd league fixture of the season today, back at the excellent Aldersley Village course in Wolverhampton, which is where i ran well in the Midlands Relays in October.
This time, about 80% of the course was frozen solid, and the other 20% was very slippy. I've ran XC in some terrible weather, and in the snow, but i don't recall ever running on ground which was totally frozen. It just about took a spike, although i considered wearing x-talons initially.
Personally, another good performance, my pace is looking considerably quicker than last season, and on tough ground today. Was 9th counter so scored in the 2nd six, and i think 3rd master, so made the first team there.
In October i averaged 3:54/km, but that was on good terrain and only 6km. Today averaged 4:00/km over 10km, so i was fairly pleased with that. A measure of the strength of the league..... there were a number of clubmates running today who are posting mid 18's in the Cov parkrun, and i dusted them by over a minute.... and i was still only about 150th today. If you're not capable of getting near 16mins for 5km then you can kiss goodbye to finishing in the top 100.
Team-wise, not seen results yet, but we had a stronger team than the first fixture and hopefully our firsts have pulled away a bit from any potential relegation danger.
Next one is in a fortnight.... the Warwickshire Champs at Warley Woods, Smethwick, probably my favourite XC course of all. Last year we won the team event, and i picked up a bronze in the masters team, hopefully we can have a similarly decent day.
Very slippery around there at the moment and the 'stream' in the dip has water which shows you how wet it has been. The boggy end will no doubt be a quagmire after the snow and thaw. (There used to be a pond many years ago but was filled in, I think sometime in the 80s - no doubt some health and safety assessment deemed it a drowning risk. Now you are only likely to slip in the mud a break a limb. Huge improvement...)
County Champs today on a lovely (if windy) day in sunny Smethwick.
Good to see PeteS before the race!
As Pete alluded to in the bike thread, the club had a reasonable day...
In the ladies we took gold and silver, and obviously then the team gold as well.
In the men's our best runner was 50/50 on whether to run due to an injury, and decided against it in the warm up. This tipped the balance in favour of the mighty Birchfield Harriers, and we had to settle for silver.
In the masters i was 3rd counter and grabbed a bronze team medal for the bookshelf....
Personally, i didn't feel that i ran particularly well... it should be a course that suits me, but i didn't make much headway on either the ups or downs... although my best parts were immediately after the ups, when i assume others were suffering but i was able to push on.
I didn't have a terrible day, i was roughly in the position in relation to my clubmates as the last league race. Although i'd hoped to really have a crack at a couple of faster guys today and give them a run, but it was clear within a couple of km that it wasn't going to happen.... i did get held up at the start due to some slow runners who decided to start on the front row... this ended up in a bit of chaos and i was spiked twice... by the time i'd removed myself from the holdup i had quite a bit of blood and i was well back from where i'd have liked to be.
Started the course setup today for the Lancs XC Champs at Witton with help from Stevie Dux from Rossy.
Finishing off in the morning from 8:00am.
Races start at 11.00am
Going to be a muddy one.
I'm running in the Derbyshire XC champs tomorrow at Bulwell in Nottingham.
Having seen the flooding in Nottingham today on the TV I've been expecting an e-mail to say they have been cancelled!
I knew I would be asked that by someone Anthony.
Notts and Derbys run their championship together and alternate the venues between the counties. I think they do this to make it a bigger event, due to the smaller number of runners entered for each county. It probably also saves some money for the associations.
One problem is that unless you know which club all the vests belong to you do not know who you are actually racing against. To help, I recall from previous events that one county wears a number front and back and the other front only but in the heat of battle you can forget how many numbers you are displaying!
Oh, I also recall that they were in Notts last year too, as the Derbyshire venue had a few puddles and the council didn't want their precious grass to become muddy so they were moved at the last minute.
One long standing historical venue for West Yorkshire XC events is Nunroyd Park in Guiseley. They are organised by one of my old clubs: Skyrac AC.
The runners tend to leave a trail of, shall we say, darkened grass along the race route.
One wet year the Council received a lots of complaints about this - from dog walkers!
They do similar sharing venues with Warwickshire and Worcestershire.
Although an interesting feature is that the "old" counties of Warks/Worcs/Staffs are used for the county champs... which effectively splits the Birmingham/Black Country conurbation... so ourselves and the Worcestershire runners found ourselves travelling to a venue which is now in the "new" county of West Midlands.
A perfect day weather wise for todays Derbys/Notts Championships at Bulwell Park. Half of the course was perfect for Mudclaws but the lower lying half was saturated with plenty of mud and standing water but the Mudclaws coped with that too.
A very short and strange briefing by the starter who's only instruction was "no spitting". I thought he was joking but he was serious and repeated the order with the threat that the "judge would disqualify" anyone caught partaking, in what I think is a normal act whilst exercising outside at full gas.
It was a very flat and fast course so I intended to start a little slower than I would in a fell race but ended up being further back than I planned when I got held up at a narrowing between two hawthorn bushes a couple of hundred yards in. However it turned out alright as I then had to pick up the pace and did not get overtaken throughout the race and was constantly reeling folk in. The race was over 6.5 miles consisting of a short lap followed by 3 large laps but I made a bit of a cock up in thinking the second large lap was the last and put a bit of an effort in to catch a team mate to find out to my horror I had to go around again.
I took it easy for the first third of the last lap to regain a bit of composure and spitting when there were no marshals in sight! I picked up the pace again towards the end and managed to finish 112th overall in the race but 36th of the Derbyshire contingent in 47.17 and 1st in my age category for a County Gold Medal. The race was won overall by Dan Haworth representing Derbyshire in 34:59. Fell Runners dominated the Derbyshire placings with Finlay Grant 2nd and Ewan and Tom Spencer 3rd and 4th respectively.
An early night tonight as its Lambs Longer Leg in the morning. Hopefully my legs will still work as I've not doubled up race wise for a few years!
Well done Llani....!
This history lesson has encouraged me to investigate something that has always seemed rather strange to me, that a club called Cambridge Harriers should be based in south-east London. The reasons are revealed here: https://www.cambridgeharriers.org/history
Are you sitting down?
The Danes divided Yorkshire into thridings or thirds. (Hence "Ridings"). Each of which was divided into wapentakes. These were the meeting place for decision making.
The "Shire Oak" in Headingly was one such place - hence Skyrack.
There is a pub in Headingly called just that and close by is a pub called the "Original Oak". There is a Shire Oak Road.
The pretentious co-founder of Skyrac AC decided to call his club Skyrac.
Go figure.
Of course only around three people now understand why the club is called that and soon we will all be dead.
The rest of the world has no idea where the club is based which is actually Guiseley/Yeadon. It will be up to you to explain to people who ask the question in future. Then you could become Chairman!
It is actually the second oldest athletics club in the Leeds area (after Leeds City AC) and is primarily a track and field plus road, rather than a fell, club. It has a very strong junior section.
Gary Devine and Simon Booth both ran for Skyrac once upon a time and it used to have 15-20 runners turn out for, say, the Three Peaks - but those days have long gone.
The club has a rather good modern clubhouse which it shares with the cricket and rugby clubs based at Nunroyd Park and is well funded because it organises the Guiseley Gallop off-road trail race through Esholt Woods which is always held on Easter Sunday. Why Easter Sunday? Because all the local supermarkets and retail parks are closed and so there is free parking for the 500 runners who have turned up because few races are held on Easter Sunday. The idea for the Guiseley Gallop was conceived by the then club Treasurer who didn't need to hear a moo to recognise a potential cash cow.
Just entered the Nationals. Never done them before and as they are relatively close this year thought I'd give it a go.
Looking at the start list it appears that Trav's Coventry Godiva have the biggest entry.
Yes we always take a load to the National, usually at least one coach and a fleet of cars.
Llani they are always special, the start of the men's senior race is something to behold, you can feel the ground rumble as everyone sets off.... but you need to get to Parliament Hill for a National, that is something else again, and i suspect it will be next year as it is the south's turn to host them next year.
We had a league race last weekend, again at the excellent Warley Woods in Smethwick... the course was set up to be a lot more hilly than at the county champs a few weeks back and it really suited me. I managed to beat a guy who has consistently caught and beat me in the last km all year, by about 40 seconds, and got a lot closer to some better runners.
We have managed to pull ourselves away from any faint relegation danger, into mid table of about 10th or 11th, after a very poor first fixture.
I was 9th counter so scored in our B team, although i scored the for Masters team, who are in 6th place.
It looks like we might see one of the perennial Division One teams relegated this year, with Rugby & Northampton needing a miracle to stay up (if they got all their superstars out for the final fixture they may be able to pull it off).
Most years you can put your money on the three promoted teams going straight back down as the division is so tough to break into.