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Yep.
Mudclaw 270's --> The rubber sole which contains the grips are splitting / tearing after only 3 outings.
This comes after my first pair of Mudrocs lost several studs on the first outing.
Inov8 replaced my first pair of shoes but have not as yet responded to my e-mail regarding the mudclaws......anyone have a personal e-mail address of anyone at Inov8 that I could contact directly? Am a bit miffed about it all.
I can't help but I was thinking about this the other day.
There do seem to be less people complaining of rubbish inov8s these days, compared with a year ago. Has the quality improved or are people just bored of complaining about it?
There you go fellmonster
Ryan Edy - [email protected]
Not sure if he still works there but he was very helpful when my mudclaws split.
Hope this helps
Jamie
Well I did about 15 runs in my 330s slowly the sole disintegrated during each run until half the heel came away during the Langdale horseshoe race I've now binned them :( these were my second pair, first only lasted two runs!Quote:
Originally Posted by marty mcfly
Shame really as the grip is fantastic on rock and grass but don't think they're up to running where there is sharp jagged rocks.
I've done a lot more running in my Montrail Phoenix shoes, the uppers are falling to bits but the sole and midsole is doing great. :confused:
Bill
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotOnUrHelly
Thanks Jamie. Will get mailing him directly.
Is it possible that people have stopped complaining about them because they've stopped buying them?Quote:
Originally Posted by marty mcfly
Wouldn't have thought so, judging by the number who wear them in races.Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalini
I'd agree. Inov 8 seem to have taken over as the shoe of choice these days.....people like Holmes, Jebb, Hope etc are hanging in there as staunch Walshies though!
I don't know why, I think they're crap. Maybe Inov8 are better at marketing their product than walsh. Plus they have a bigger range, more options, I mean the flyroc's are quite nice for walking in.
Could be why Jebb, Holmes etc use walshes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme
maybe I'm lucky but I've been running in them for the last few years (Mudclaws and Roc-Lites) and haven't had any problems... probably just not doing enough running!
My 330s got me round the BG this year with no problems - not a blister in sight.
I use my 270s for most races (never train in them). My current pair have done about 30 races and they're about wrecked, now. (Studs worn out, broken off, sole splitting, uppers starting to show some wear.)
To be fair my Walshes don't last that much longer than my Inov8's used to. But with the innov8's the sole actualy snapped. Same place is 4 pairs in a row, but supposedly there wasn't an issue according to Inov8.
Anyway with Walshes I find the grip wears down very fast, 200-300 miles generally. But that's with daily use in Snowdonia on rocky ground. I also can put new soles on them, and the grip wears down because it's soft rubber, so quick wear is unavoidable.
As a goal keeper a new pair of £50 gloves will show heavy wear inside 3 games. It's just an unavoidable issue when you use soft rubber, upside is good grip, down side is rapid wear.
The main issue with Walshes is washing them after use, as peat just rots them rapidly.
Anyway they are two different fitting makes, so I think that's why both types will stay popular. The montrails don't fit, but they seem to be picking up a loyal following.
not a big fan of innov 8 to be honest but ive noticed my last 2 pairs of walsh pbs the studs have worn rapid.
ive not yet tried the 270s but i will
my flyrocks have been okay for training but the mudclaw 330s just seemed heavy.
personally i think some people just naturally wreck shoes faster than others.
it amazes me when people talk of shoes wrecked after 2 outings.
ive just purchased some rocklites for training in
No complaints from me for the Mudrocs. My flyrocs upper's became 'holey' as i notice have others. the mudclaw did the same but Innov8 replaced straight away. This pair of Mudclaws nips my right tendon.
Lol we're never happy are we. I liked my old New Balance Rx until the sole fell off.
As a hard trail shoe roclites are superb, until it rains when they are ice skates. On wet grass they are deadly. Comfy trail shoe though. I use the thin footbed in mine (3mm?) from inov8 which stops my toes from banging against the front.
only tried them twice on the local trail but they seem okay to me as well, both times dry so i will keep in mind the problems in the wet.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
Mostly if im going out over the hills and its wet i will put my walsh's on.
I have had words (phone and e-mail) with Wayne, the MD of Inov-8 on several occasions about various bits of kit, including their shoes. As a light runner who can normally get away with wearing shoes for ages, I was shocked at the nature of the faults on a pair of Flyrocs (as it could only be bad build quality, not wear). I was also a bit insulted by the way that Ryan spoke to me on the phone ("you weren't wearing your flyrocs off the trails were you?")
Whilst you may get somewhere to resolving the issue with your one shonky pair of runners, you'll not get far with them about how long shoes should really last (given the price), or the variability in the quality of their products.
I find it a bit sad that a company so outwardly geared towards a niche market such as our weird and wonderful sport has such difficulties in delivering products to satisfy their core customers. I have a lot of time for Wayne- he's a nice guy. But I can't help feeling that his company might eventually end up producing lovely shoes for walkers who want to be part of the fellrunning image without actually having to do it.
But it is also true that as active fellrunners, we're a tiny proportion of the running shoe market, and as consumers with a specific need, are in a very vulnerable place. Walsh seem to be quite variable, Inov-8 certainly are, Montrails are a little clumpier and don't suit everyone, and New Balance have just stopped making the RX Terrain....hmmm....
Rhiannon
Thing is, what is off the trail? If you're in the lakes there are a number of paths that are no more than hard trails, eg the Helvellyn Dodds ridge, Fairfield Horseshoe, etc. These are no different than say the Walna Scar road which contributes significantly to the Coniston Trail Race. So what are they classing as a trail?
P.s. That's not a dig at you Rhiannon, just an open honest question.
Since INOV-8 came on the market I have raced in no other shoe and I race over 50 times a year.
I had dealings with Wayne a few years ago and had a couple of pairs free and I recall Wayne then accepted some quality faults and some design faults.
Wayne talked about runners wanting a "dream shoe" and his difficulty in manufacturing such as product.
Dylan sang:
Half of the people can be part right all of the time,
Some of the people can be all right part of the time,
But all the people can't be all right all the time.
...
I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours.
Runners can dream about a perfect shoe for all terrains, that suits everyone, that never wears out, that is cheap to buy, good in all weather,... but it is just a dream.
Well my Mudclaw 330's http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Detai...6&P=5050973112 have been very comfortable since I started wearing them (April-ish I think) but they've very nearly had it now. In fact they're pretty much fcuked :) - the grips are shot and the tops are tearing in places. I have worn them over all terrains though, often in the same run and have even done a 13 mile road half marathon in them :rolleyes:
I think running in the Lakes is more felly, with far more open fell (grass and bog) running than the Dales and the soles take less of a wearing down. Conversely the uppers are probably more prone to being rotted down by the mud and wet. In the Dales my running routes (and the race routes I have trogged round too) seem to more often follow paths/trails and these (like the Penine Way in places) are often rocky and rubblely rather than muddy. The Dales ruins the soles then but preserve the uppers :)
So with me running in The Lakes, Dales and even roads, I can't in all honesty believe they've lasted as long as they have.
Whilst I agree to a point with you Graham, 4 pairs of terrocs failing, because the plastic 'bone' in the sole snapped out of the sole at the same point in the sole each time, seems to me to be a design fault.
With my walshes once the grip goes I can still wear them for walking or dryer runs, but with those failed innov8's they had to be binned.
I cannot comment on terrocs-latterly I have only run in Mudclaw and previously Mudroc.Quote:
Originally Posted by IainR
What has happened with my 330s is not a "wearing down" but chunks of sole and after the Langdale midsole coming off the shoe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Walshes and montrails don't have this problem with me.
Walshes uppers do fall to pieces and I overpronate badly in them as they start to wear.
Montrails don't have the grip or low profile of the others so not really a fell shoe but I seem to keep coming back to them as they are a good compromise
Bill
and even if you invented one it would be a marketing disasterQuote:
Originally Posted by GrahamB
my boss always tells me , darren dont make the stuff last to long we will never hear from them again
so i dont
My wife's 290s are now 4 years old... soles very worn, uppers fine. Her first pair blew a toe seam after 4 miles and were replaced immediately, the next pair appear indestructible.
My 290s lasted well (2 year+ but probably only low mileage at about 200)
My newer 270s are worn on the sole and have various abraded holes in the uppers but though they look a mess they're still fine.
My 330s are built like brick privvies and have only done 100 miles or so as yet.
I like them - but I used to like walshes until they changed the last.
Ben B
I'm totally feed-up with Inov-8. I think a lot of runners have just got use to the shoes falling apart so they accept it now because you haven't got much choice (The mudclaw does offer the best grip). I fell into this camp a couple of years ago before I started using trail shoes more (when I was doing a different kind of running). Then I realised that I my trail shoes would last (Montrail) 500 miles easy and I'd be forcing myself to throw them away. It wasn't like I wasn't using them in difficult terrain (New zealand and south america have some of the roughest terrain I've ever run on).
I bought Montrail Highlanders recently and I use them for all my training runs - I reckon I've done over 350 miles in them and they still look in great shape. However I don't race in them for obvious reasons, so I've been using 270's and 280's - Well I've only done 104 race miles in the 270's and they are falling to pieces. So much so I don't think I could commit to wearing them for another race for fear that they will fall off my feet. ALso the 280's have only just survived the Lamm, Saunders and Mourne, I can't wear them for the Kimm as I'm sure they won't last. Not only is this a waste of my cash but everytime I buy a new pair I'm thinking of the waste of resources in my consumption (sorry I've just read Let my people go surfing by Yvon Chouinard). The shoes are just not upto it, they are imo very cheaply made (most road shoes are more robust if you used them over the same terrain)and surely we need to vote with our feet! I'm buying walshes for races from now on until something better comes along - at least I can get them re-soled. I think the Dream shoe response is just a cop-out for suppling a bad product. Once someone comes along to address this (I've heard montrail and New balance has something more aggressive coming out) - i think the inov-8 bubble will burst.
Not so for Patagonia - I don't think they have ever been so popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by daz h
How can you call that lasting well? If you never wear them then of course they'll last well :confused:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B
I am never buying Innov8 again. I bought a pair of Mudclaws from GEORGE FISHERs, KESWICK in may. I used them for 8 weeks and ran a Sunnto T3 recorded 126 miles over soft fields and forest trails around the Tarn Hows/ Grizedale Forest area. They started rubbing up at the heal so I took them back end of July.
I have just received them back from George Fishers, nearly 10 weeks after taking them back to GEORGE FISHERS. Natural ware they say. Bag of sh1t I say.
Customer service? What customer service?
Innov8 ? Never again. and George Fiser can swing for it as far as I care. What a load of shambles.
I know, they didn't go far because most of my training was on farmland paths or tracks at the time in a pair of trail shoes. But having said that other people have mentioned the shoes falling apart after tens of miles only so by comparison that is lasting well...Quote:
Originally Posted by david
That figure is a low estimate to be fair, it included 2 KIMMs, 3 LAMMs, and the training for them plus quite a lot of scrambling. And I do get lost quite a lot :o
Before I swapped over from Walshes I had a pair of PBs that fell apart after less than a hundred miles, uppers rather than the soles, and the new last turned my heels in to chile con carne...
I thought it was reasonable for someone who has had reasonable longevity from their inov8s to contribute to the thread :) in the interests of balance. I think my style (or lack of it) probably is easy on my shoes compared to many others on here - it certainly not like I'm a 6ft, 50kg whippet. I have been compared more to a fat labrador with a fondness for warm fires and puddings :D
HTH
Ben B
(weekly mileage varying between 5 and 50km depending on work, baby duties and sleep deprivation)
You used them over 8 weeks before you found out you didn't like them? In most shops you would get to jog on the spot for 10 seconds before making your decision.
Seems a fair comment by the shop in my opinion.
For the record, I tried Inov8's a couple of years ago. I bust a pair after 2/3 short races, got a replacement pair, same thing happened & never bought another pair since.
Agreed; and was the abrasion on the outside of the heel? My 270s look very knacked on the outside there but it's just cosmetic. I think you probably had a reasonable time in them and they were therefore "fit for purpose" to use a miserable new phrase. If GF wanted to swap them and absorb the cost fine but I suspect as a consumer you don't have a leg to stand on. Which would make some of the ascents tricky :)
Fair point. I've never had a pair of PB Racers or Gladiators fall apart anything like that quickly although my last pair of Glads didn't last quite as long as I expected, probably about 500 miles. That's still longer than both pairs of Inov8s that I've had (290 and 310). I've just had to do a very small stitching repair on some Walsh Raids after about 300 miles but other than that they are fine so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B
I've had a pair of Inov8s which have lasted for years - the reason being that I've only really worn them once. First proper run I had to turn back after just over a mile of track because of the excrutiating heel pain they caused, which then stopped me running for 2-3weeks (despite them feeling fine when trying them on). Despite having done only a couple of miles in them the stitching was coming apart on the uppers aswell! Compared to that my Gladiators last and last, despite regular 2-4hr runs in Snowdonia, ultras in Iceland (volcanic rock is pretty rough on shoes!), etc. My one and only experience of Inov8 was so bad I would never risk another pair, even if they were free!
try orange customer serviceQuote:
Originally Posted by S1eepless
think your being a bit harsh on innov 8 , you have to be fair to them as they have launched some very good products, the heel problem was well documented and talked about in fell running circles, you dont say which model you purchased so i cannot comment but i had the grey 280s and had the same problem but DIDNT take them back as there was no point. You could clearly see that the heel kicked back inwards and this was obviously a design fault. Ive tried the flyrocks and they are okay.
We have to praise a company that comes out with new products , okay they might not always work but as graham breeze says the perfect shoe isnt out there
It sounds like you might work for Inov-8!!Quote:
Originally Posted by daz h
Saying we can't create the perfect shoe is rubbish. If you use cheap production methods and the shoe is pretty much only guled together then of course you are going to use this as your justification. I'd be interested to find out how much Inov-8 pay for each pair of shoes from their supplier. I bet we'd all be very surprised how little it is. I'd rather pay more for a well made shoe that lasts much longer.
I am now onto my second pair of FlyRocs.
I have had the first pair for a year, I have used them nearly every weekend for either 12+mile walks in the Peaks or rocky walks in the Lakes, a few fell races (got pb's as well) or training runs and only cleaned then twice (because they really did smell).
They are splitting a bit where the upper/lowers join (in one area) and there is a little hole in the mesh uppers (little toe?!).
The only reason I have bought another pair now is for the cushioning when running, I will still walk in my old pair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amadablam
do you know anything about staying in buisness:confused: the company i have worked for have been in buisness a very long time, we could sell and market a product that would last twice as long but WOULD not sell for twice the priceand in the long run you would end up going bankrupt
so i will try and explain how things tend to work in the UK
correct me if im wrong but i will have a go
if innov 8 tried to market a shoe for say £120.00 yeah and the soles and uppers lasted twice as long
right imagine when they first tried to market them , you can imagine the meeting
right guys we will enter the fell shoe market ( not known for shelling out money willy nilly ) with a shoe for £120.
first problem = walsh sell for £60 or less
2nd problem = customers may not buy them = your left with masses of stock unsold = loose money = bankrupt
3rd problem = lets say they managed to convince a few runners to actually part with the extra cash the problem is then that products generally only have a certain PATENT time on them ( ie say the patent runs out in 3 years just as you have convinced the market that these are the dogs bollox of fell shoes, then along comes mr another company sees that the shoes are doing well and decides to copy them BUT sell them for say £90 a pair.
4th problem = a price war starts , shoes get more and more discounted and in the end like lots of companies the magic product becomes your downfall (ie) victim of your own success
5th problem = the shoes that last twice as long are now selling for a lot less than when you first initially put them on the market
unlike I pods, computers and technical stuff there isnt a lot more you can really do to a fell shoe so the next best thing doesnt come along that often
take road shoes, the market unlike fell shoes is massive so companies like asics can probably justify keep coming out with newer models that seem to be that little more expensive every time but basically are just more cushioned in my view.
the fell shoe market cannot justify it
if it did im sure someone a lot cleverer than me would have already done it.
at least with innov 8 you now have a choice
My personal view is that loads of fellrunners jumped on the innov 8 bandwagon but loads will probably jump ship back, like every new product that comes out it wont be for everyone. Walsh had the market for years , now innov 8 have some of it.
With regards to manufacturing costs , ha , every pair of running shoes that ive probably worn has been made by women and children in taiwan or somewhere for peanuts and thats not good but its market forces simple as that
Anybody out there really love their inovs? As someone above said, in the interest of balance...!