Bolts on Broad Stand

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Originally Posted by elliptic

That was meant to be tongue-in-cheek :) but I agree with your main point entirely.

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Sorry Elliptic I should have realised, I was probably paying too much atention to the England match at the time:o

Only just got back into reading posts on forum.
Personally I think the letter of the country code covers any challenge we do / attempt to do.
If a contender decides to go the BS route then they may prefer a rope as backup.
No problem, so long as it is removed without trace directly after they have passed through.
What is the overlying phrase? Leave nothing but footsteps!!!!

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Originally Posted by PlumBum

Leave nothing but footsteps!!!!

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....take nothing but pictures.

Welcome back PB:D

Next you'll be limiting the amount of pacers and length of studs in your walshes to minimise erosion???

Perhaps it's all getting a bit too organised? Maybe having rules and guidelines is the problem?

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Originally Posted by dominion

Next you'll be limiting the amount of pacers and length of studs in your walshes to minimise erosion???

Perhaps it's all getting a bit too organised? Maybe having rules and guidelines is the problem?

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Yes Han, I agree, you can argue that the BG is getting too organised.

And the thought of having to draw revised Guidance Notes for those who haven't got the relevant experience to know how to deal with BS really pisses me off.

However, I would rather the Club set out its position, so it is clear what this is. I believe that will reflect the thinking of the vast majority of those who would ever want to make a BG attempt, and so won't be regarded as an imposition; just a statement of principles already accepted through experience.

Sitting in my shoes, a further concern is that I was contacted about the bolts because the climbing community believed that BG contenders/support parties might have been responsible.

If a BG contender ever does come to grief on BS, I can see various third parties crawling all over the BG community in its various guises and asking daft questions and coming to daft conclusions (remember what the journos did last autumn) and, speaking personally, that will put me in the firing line.

Now I'm not a risk averse person. I am a charity trustee, I was a lawyer for 20 years in private practice, I organise races. But sometimes some defensive measures are necessary.

There may now be people around attempting the BG who don't know how to behave, and an organisation created to foster enthusiasm for the BG probably needs to encourage that good behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Bobert

Morgan just another thought. I think what you suggest is okay and fair, but could you make a link to the BMC's crag code on the BG site?

I think this bolting may occur again in the future as there will be groups not interested in the BG club or British climbing ethics that will just see broadstand as an inconvenient obstacle. And the problem then of having too many rules is alienating folk from the challenge. But then it probably needs that extra step as it seems the BG is reaching another peak in attempts from all walks.

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Thanks Iain.

Not a bad thought.

M

I am reliably informed there were 6 bolts, Wasdale MRT had nothing to do with placing them, they were as outraged as anyone else at this act of sheer vandalism, and one of their esteemed members has carefully removed the offending items.

No rock climber would bolt Broad Stand. It is not even a rock climb. It is a piece of piss, albeit not something that even a decent climber would tackle on a BG without some protection, easily found without recourse to bolts. Because its is so easily protected by traditional means, some over zealous BG'er is being blamed locally and what are the chances the accusation is wrong? We are idiots to think someone is going to own up on this Forum. A bad day for our sport.

Too many people attempting the BG haven't a clue about the history/ethics/accepted good practice. Recently heard of one attempt where the hill support who had gladly volunteered to help, finished their leg and got no food from the road support! They were told that we only have food for the contender. Very poor!

FWIW, personally I think the only level on which this matters, is that the BGR community shouldn't get itself a bad name. In the Alps (etc) it is quite normal to put bolts and other aids in place to open up harder areas to non-climbers; e.g. via ferrata which are great fun without having to carry stacks of gear. I'd (probably) vote for bolts at BS, but am equally happy to go via Foxes tarn, solo it on a dry (and quiet) day, or maybe even (but probably not) get a rope rigged. But unless & until the culture shifts a bit (there's already one ferrata in the Lakes...), no bolts it is. Times change: trods develop, things get bolted ...

Not directly related to this forum but I think it matters in terms of Lakes climbing tradition and is a wider issue than just the BG - what if someone bolts Little Chamonix or Corvus next? I dont climb any more and was never particularly good but I feel its a real shame to see bolts appearing on traditional lakes routes and crags. For something like the BG the only circumstances in which I personally as a failed BG contender but fairly frequent pacer feel it could be justified would be if there was no alternative route and if it could not be protected by trad gear, in which case BG would probably have gone another way anyway.