Well done, Darren! Don't make a habit of this training thing though will you? The evening race season is here!
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Well done, Darren! Don't make a habit of this training thing though will you? The evening race season is here!
That's so true! The first time I did the race, I paced myself and blasted past over 70 people on the descent from Ingleborough feeling strong as an ox and with a decent time (for me). The second time, I tried to beat my splits and overcooked it on PyG and the run to Ribblehead so had to contend with cramp on Whernside and a painful run to Horton. Result - 4minutes slower! (I was doing The Fellsman this year where pacing was crucial).
Edit...I wasn't agreeing with the crushing people's dreams bit DT! Got to love dreamers :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
Few images of the day here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/139956...7651770497238/
Attachment 8073
Well I had a nightmare day, looks like the months of working away training on a hotel treadmill caught up with me. I felt flat right from the gun, more or less jogged up PYG and slowly felt my legs easing up in the steady run across to whernside. Hit whernside as planned but couldn't manage to run much of it and the long walk cooled me down far too much. 2/3rds of the way up I decided I was getting dangerously cold and stopped to struggle into my jacket and gloves.
I think about 50 passed me at this point, I couldn't get my arms into my jacket and once I finally managed, my fingers would not straighten to go into my gloves. I gave it up as a bad job and continued with my gloves half on. By the top I had decided to concentrate on getting to hill inn safely and was no longer bothered about finishing, which was fortuitous given that I had to repeatedly stop to sort out the stupid insoles in my Speedcross. I got rhythm going again but it was a last chance effort to stay warm with no intention of continuing.
I dropped out (again) at Hill Inn and after hearing reports of snow on Ingleborough I think it was the right choice. Even wearing all my kit in the minibus I was shaking all over for more than half an hour before any warmth started to return. My fingers were still frozen several hours later.
I've now had one finish from four attempts, granted it was a fairly decent time but still not satisfactory to me yet. One year I will nail this race. I have to, it's driving my nuts!
Welcome to the club! I've got 4 finishes, but not happy with my times on any of them.Quote:
I've now had one finish from four attempts, granted it was a fairly decent time but still not satisfactory to me yet. One year I will nail this race. I have to, it's driving my nuts!
An odd 3 peaks for me. I had been ill and injured in the run up so only done about 50% of the training I wanted, I had had a good stint of training in Nov, Dec and Jan though. I was laid up for the whole week before with a virus I've not been able to properly shake for ages, and I only decided to run the night before. I did have one aim and that was a 1st class time and I knew that if it wasn't on at Hill Inn I'd retire! The reality was it went much better than I'd hoped for and I took it really steady to Ribblehead and luckily missed the worst of the weather finishing 10 mins inside 1st class at 3:30. Well happy with that
Obviously they're different races entirely but the contrast of gear that fellsmanners were wearing at the start of The Fellsman in Ingleton with the gear that the 3 peakers were wearing at the start was massive. The 3 peakers were still by and large in vests and shorts with the odd waterproof whilst the fellsman start looked like an episode of Fortitude (but without the polar bears). I think your mistake Rob was probably not putting the gear on at the bottom of Whernside - Pen y Ghent is more or less runnable all the way so you can get away with it there in poor weather but its only the two plateau-ey bits on Whernside where a trot is possible and its really easy to get cold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Furness
That was pretty much my mistake as well, by the time I realised how arctic it was I was that bloody cold I couldn't even manage to get into my bum bag, I couldn't even grasp the zip, as my hands were absolutely sodding freezing having taken a tumble in the stream/river crossingQuote:
Originally Posted by Stolly
Thanks for that Stolly but I'm well aware of my mistake. It was more of a gamble, the forecast was for the day to warm up as it went on but it got colder instead. At the foot of whernside it wasn't too bad, but the rain started on the way up and the temperature dropped. Hence stopping to put the jacket on.
My jacket went on half way up Whernside, it never came off till the finish!
Hats off to the couple of guys in JUST vest and shorts!
I started with shorts, H/H and waterproof plus gloves. Buff on wrist just in case. I was a little overdressed for first two mile or so, but after that fine. I just adjusted with buff and gloves as I went. looing at my run now I think I once again started too far down the field which made me think I was fine for pace, should have pushed a little more up Pen-y-Ghent. I pulled through from Whernside, lost a few places on road etc to Ingleborough, then caught a lot through to the finish. Tricky race....100% confidence, and understanding of, strengths and weaknesses is key!
Same outcome for me Rob, managed to keep walking whilst putting the jacket on during that sopping wet climb on Whernside. I have never felt cold in a race before but was starting to chill going up there. The ground conditions were awful and slow, the worst in my six PPP races and I felt i wasn;t moving quickly enough to generate the heat. I left the jacket on for Ingleborough and was glad, given the hail. I ran 4:08, with those ahead missing the wintry stuff i understand and those behind copping it worse than i did.
A good race for tactics and playing to your strengths. I always say that 'this will be my last one' but end up entering again....
Well done all, that was a tricky day for a long race
Obviously they're different races entirely but the contrast of gear that fellsmanners were wearing at the start of The Fellsman in Ingleton with the gear that the 3 peakers were wearing at the start was massive. The 3 peakers were still by and large in vests and shorts with the odd waterproof whilst the fellsman start looked like an episode of Fortitude (but without the polar bears). I think your mistake Rob was probably not putting the gear on at the bottom of Whernside - Pen y Ghent is more or less runnable all the way so you can get away with it there in poor weather but its only the two plateau-ey bits on Whernside where a trot is possible and its really easy to get cold.
I am currently researching the 5 deaths in English/Welsh fell races associated with hypothemia and I have been reminded, when examining the detail revealed at Inquests, that when runners start getting cold they behave irrationally. In these cases that led to their deaths including, of course, one in the Three Peaks Race.
Totally right about understanding your strengths and weaknesses and having a plan including pacing, IMHO. experience and knowing your splits has helped me improve times three years on the trot (4th consecutive one this year). I was one of the few overdressed in waterproof jacket from the off but I hit my splits almost bang on (ie only one or two mins up on each CP split) against a 3:45 schedule based on past experience and studying similar times from last year. Hit ingleborough summit 2 mins ahead (ie 3:03) and had allowed 40 mins for final leg which took me 35. I only knew those splits would work because of experience of the course (3 years previous) and knowing my own comfort zones.Quote:
Originally Posted by that_fjell_guy
For me it's all about knowing what you are capable of and having a plan.
they didn't have hats on either!Quote:
Originally Posted by ukhursty
my mate ran 3:50 odd in a vest. I think he wished he'd worn more, but just beat the blizzard on Ingleborough.
Darren, interesting to read this, it was my first PPPs this year and I took a similar tactic of not wearing a watch and pacing on feel. I was behind you most of the way going up PYG (the black and white vest is very distinctive!) and let most of the runners I normally am around shoot off. I was initially worried that Id set off too slow so was relieved when i heard you say you were aiming for 3.45 which was at the top end of my expectations. I carried this steady pace on to ribblehead where I still felt fresh and decided to push on. I was waiting the whole way round for the inevitable pain to hit which so many people talk of at the PPPs but it never came and I still felt strong coming down off ingleborough despite a few twinges of cramp. I was very pleasantly surprised to finish in 3:31, miles beyond my expectations and in front of a number of runners who usually whoop me at fell races. Doubt Ill ever feel that good again at this race but it certainly taught me the virtues of running to feel and not a clock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tindersticks
I had an almost carbon copy of your experience Greg, except I was aiming for 4.00 and finished in 3.38. (and it looks like I was very close to you at Ribblehead, so shows you paced it better!)Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW
Just about stayed warm enough in a Helly with gloves and buff!
...............and echoing previous comments regarding Kieran Carr, what an inspiration. Then there's Wendy Dodds completing her 32rd Peaks race after recently breaking her arm whilst skiing. And please correct me if I'm wrong but was yesterday David Scott's 47th Peaks race...gulp.
That's right Daz ~ and all those mentioned run for Clayton-le-moors !
Kieran Carr broke the M70 course record with a time of 4:44:18; Katy Thompson completed her 21st Three Peaks; and despite a fall in the lane up Pen-y-Ghent and a full length dive in the river Dave Scott still managed to complete his 48th Three Peaks.
Amazing !
On my third attempt I took 21 mins off my previous best time and was elated as I crossed the finish, having felt strong all the way from the top of Whernside. So now I'm thinking: I could have gone faster... Roll on next year!
That's very true, I've experienced it myself before now, although not on this occasion so much. I once took a high line whilst out training when I got too cold in the rather stupid belief it would be faster to get me home into the warm but in actual fact it was exactly the same length but more exposed, and worse terrain, and more energy sapping as a result of both. I was very glad to reach my van and warm up at the end of that day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Breeze
and they're all in the junior training squadQuote:
Originally Posted by mapper
(Sorry, couldn't resist :D )
Great achievement as well.
Yes they are all helping to train the rapidly expanding Clayton Juniors (under 20's)!
We still have an unclaimed Garmin Forerunner. If anyone has lost one contact me or the RO. :)
Andy Berry lost one, has he been in touch?
Yes, just waiting for him to collect it. This is a different one.
not the fastest but managed a PB by 6 mins at 4:33 so think if conditions were better could have finally beaten 4:30.that was 8 finish in a row (only 40 to go)
oh well back next year to try for 4:29:59
I'd like a 4:30 but I think I want t do Fellsman next year! Tricky! :/
The real trick in these conditions is to wear a swimming cap!Quote:
Originally Posted by benshep
I have it on good authority that entries open Sunday 31st January :)
http://fellrunner.org.uk/races.php?id=4561
Entries now OPEN
400+ after 12hrs. Not too bad
I was talking to Harry Walker yesterday. He told me that before his time, Herb Elliott had arrived to do the Three Peaks but didn't race on the day as the clag was down.
The greatest miler/1500 runner of his time - seems odd - but I'm sure Harry is correct. Does anyone know of this - must have been 60s I imagine.
can't help you with that one WP, but, heard a lot about Harry Walker, is he around at BH events a lot? Would love to meet him and talk fell runningQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
He comes to Witton for races sometimes with John Calvert who's also a legend. Both great blokes and I'm chuffed to get to know a little of them. Harry will be the Marshall on the Whernside descent just before you hit the steep bit, so say hello to him.
I'll see if I can find out when he's next watching. I suspect he'll be around the Stan Bradshaw as he's walking on Pendle a lot.
Brill, cheers! I only mention as my Grandad talks about him a lot, has tons of memories of doing a lot of the same races as Harry, speaks very fondly of him and how good of a runner he wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darwen Dashers Calvin
Well Harry was the second "Fell Runner Of The Year" (= British Champion) in 1973 and he is on the cover of FRA website-archived The Fellrunner dated Christmas 1978- the year he won the first of his three PPP wins.
As to his anecdote about Elliot and the PPP: well it is certainly a good old fell runner's tale, "Olympic Gold Medalist doesn't start trail race because of a bit of clag" but I would want to check with someone ever older than me like Dave Hodgson or Bill Wade.
Harry Walker won his PPP between 1978-81 so well past the early 1960's when Elliot was in England apparently studying at Cambridge University after winning the 1500m Gold Medal at the Rome Olympics in 1960.
But what Bill Smith does say in SMOTS is that Elliott did not start the 1963 Mountain Trial because he had been advised by the AAA Secretary that his amateur status might have been compromised by some (paid) broadcasting that he had done. Bill was usually right (and I see the picture on page 46 of the Summer 2015 Fellrunner has Bill (9) just to the right of Harry (5) at the start of the 1972 Wasdale race!).
I'm considering running the route in next couple of weeks. Not done so before. It appears most is run on bridleways and paths? What's the shoe choice - fell shoes or if it's pathy are trail better?
At this time of year I'd go for fell shoes, especially if you take the race route or the equally steep old walkers path up whernside.
I'm in and looking forward to it greatly... Anybody like to throw in an estimate how my finish time is likely to compare to Marsden-Edale Trigger...?
Miles faster by the looks of things. The 3P is a far too fast long distance race with about 5,300 of ascent. The typical winning time is 2:50 hours for a 23 mile route :)