Three Peaks Fell Race

I wrote an email to the race organisers/ Paul Dennison detailing my dismay (bit of an understatement) at being timed out by one minute after standing in a queue for about 7 or 8 mins at the pallet blockade! Paul Dennison phoned me last night to explain that he only had knowledge of this obstacle about 5 mins before the cut-off at Hill Inn, as the marshal at the offending access point did not have a walkie talkie. Also, he had to take in to consideration the exposure to the elements that his marshals were experiencing on the summits of Whernside and Ingleborough. I completely understand his position but he wasn't for refunding my entry fee. I'm gutted that this has happened, as the 3 peaks is my stomping ground and I had so much lovely support from family and friends/Settle Harriers - it was a fantastic day until I arrived at the Hill Inn. I need to do another race soon to lift my spirits!

Thanks for that Stolly - good point!

I think there people's splits are unreliable unless you know them personally and what kind of runner they are! My three sets of splits from the three times I've run the three peaks race are all really different. First race I did I ran consistently and steadily (4.30) and the splits are probably the most reliable but the next time I tried to beat them to get a better time and have faster times until Whernside when I blew up and got cramp so lost all the time I made up and finished 5 minutes slower (4.35). This year I wasn't race fit so all my splits are slower and I finished in 5.11 but my split from Whernside to Hill Inn is not far off my split from the previous time because I nearly killed myself trying to beat the cut-off. I wouldn't want anyone to go on my splits!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Witton Park

You have to be careful of those 3P splits as they are based on average speed and the first half of the course is much faster than the second half.
The best way to work out a schedule is to check the times and splits of runners from previous years.
You'll find a mix, because some (like me) used to get around to Ribblehead fairly comfortably in 1:45 ish and then hang on for a 4:45.
Others may only get through RH is 1:55 and yet finish in 4:30.

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I think its good that Paul rang you. It shows that he values your opinion even if he didn't waver on the refund. What Stolly said is true though. Personally, I had to walk for five minutes to recover from the effort of getting to Hill Inn and beating the cut-off. I only beat it because I am a 'stubborn cow' and I nearly killed myself in the effort to do so. Both you and my friend in Ripon Runners (who also missed the cut-off by a minute) would have kept running at a steady pace and neither of you would have caused the marshals to have been out for any longer than they already were. Whilst I was sorting myself out so I could get running again, I walked with a few runners who felt that it didn't matter if they ran or walked now they'd beaten the cut-off. I didn't feel that way, too competitive, and pushed on as soon as I felt I could but I think there are a few people who just aim to get past that last cut-off and then relax. I feel really frustrated on your behalf!:(

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Originally Posted by muddy two shoes

I wrote an email to the race organisers/ Paul Dennison detailing my dismay (bit of an understatement) at being timed out by one minute after standing in a queue for about 7 or 8 mins at the pallet blockade! Paul Dennison phoned me last night to explain that he only had knowledge of this obstacle about 5 mins before the cut-off at Hill Inn, as the marshal at the offending access point did not have a walkie talkie. Also, he had to take in to consideration the exposure to the elements that his marshals were experiencing on the summits of Whernside and Ingleborough. I completely understand his position but he wasn't for refunding my entry fee. I'm gutted that this has happened, as the 3 peaks is my stomping ground and I had so much lovely support from family and friends/Settle Harriers - it was a fantastic day until I arrived at the Hill Inn. I need to do another race soon to lift my spirits!

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Originally Posted by ChevinbyTorchlight

... If you're missing the Hill Inn cut-off by 5mins or less, the only person you need to take a look at is yourself....
... People are too quick to lay the blame instead of improving themselves first and foremost....
...Anyone operating within the spirit of the sport would just put it down to lessons learned and move on...

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These comments rather miss the point. All runners at that end of the field run the 3 Peaks with the 3.30 Hill Inn cut off time very much at the forefront of their minds. They aim to pace themselves to make sure they get through it (even if, for some, this will always be a close call) leaving enough energy to get over Ingleborough. What these entrants could not have anticipated was the entirely unexpected problem of being held up for 5 minutes or more at the pallet blockade below Whernside.
In the spirit of fell running, all these competitors (bar one it seems) politely queued up to clamber one-by-one over the blockade. So, having trained for months and months and properly paced themselves to get through the 3.30 cut off, they found themselves timed out through no fault of their own. If I had been in their shoes, I would have been bitterly disappointed to find myself in that situation. That is why they deserve our sympathy rather than being patronised about their level of fitness.

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Originally Posted by Ilkley Swimmer

These comments rather miss the point. All runners at that end of the field run the 3 Peaks with the 3.30 Hill Inn cut off time very much at the forefront of their minds. They aim to pace themselves to make sure they get through it (even if, for some, this will always be a close call) leaving enough energy to get over Ingleborough. What these entrants could not have anticipated was the entirely unexpected problem of being held up for 5 minutes or more at the pallet blockade below Whernside.
In the spirit of fell running, all these competitors (bar one it seems) politely queued up to clamber one-by-one over the blockade. So, having trained for months and months and properly paced themselves to get through the 3.30 cut off, they found themselves timed out through no fault of their own. If I had been in their shoes, I would have been bitterly disappointed to find myself in that situation. That is why they deserve our sympathy rather than being patronised about their level of fitness.

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Well said Ilkley S.

I guess the cut offs are there to protect the marshals and should be enforced especially in bad conditions. This farmer who blocked the way should be the one taking a look at himself. The Three Peaks Race is iconic and historic and should be protected from people like this.

I only just made the cut off at Ribblehead so I would have been in the queue had I not dropped out. I will 'take a look at myself' and 'train harder' for next year! ;)

But the conditions on Saturday weren't actually that bad relatively speaking and, for the marshals on Ingleborough, I guess they would have been asked to be up there for 4 or 5 hours plus 5 minutes instead of just 4 or 5 hours. The marshals on the day were all brilliant and I'm sure they would have toughed out another 5 minutes if asked.

As for the farmer, like I said before, maybe he thought that making his pallets tough and tightly fitted was the right thing to do, making them safer to climb over?

I didn't get to the pallets on Saturday :(
At Witton, we have also had some problems with gates, where we use the farmers land for cross country around the back, over the saucer. One had become dangerous and 2 were in a state of disrepair.
Between our club, the Red Rose League and Lancashire AA, we have paid for 3 new gates in the last few years, as a gesture to the farmer as we appreciate his cooperation and don't feel he should be out of pocket for letting us use his land.
Maybe there is enough money in the kitty to offer to pay for the farmer to put on a proper gate? I'm sure the farmer would appreciate the gesture and it would avoid any other problems at that point.

That's a good idea Richard. The gap in the wall is I imagine rarely used by the farmer, for sure there is rarely livestock on Winterscales Pasture. There are often sheep on the main track and river side of the wall though so he does need the gap blocked to stop the sheep disappearing up Whernside. Mind you would a gate increase access to the fell side there by walkers and runners?

I doubt it - there's gates all over the show and people don't just head for them. Walkers tend to follow the paths on the map and so they'll stick to the main drag. More adventurous types may try the old track that runs up Whernside about 400m west of the race route.
Fell Runners will be the main ones that use the race route and they will use it whatever.

That really is an excellent idea.

Well said! I also like the gate idea. It could be padlocked for the rest of the year and unlocked for race day, that would put off most opportunists. I can't imagine many people other than fellrunners wanting to take that route up Whernside.

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Originally Posted by Ilkley Swimmer

These comments rather miss the point. All runners at that end of the field run the 3 Peaks with the 3.30 Hill Inn cut off time very much at the forefront of their minds. They aim to pace themselves to make sure they get through it (even if, for some, this will always be a close call) leaving enough energy to get over Ingleborough. What these entrants could not have anticipated was the entirely unexpected problem of being held up for 5 minutes or more at the pallet blockade below Whernside.
In the spirit of fell running, all these competitors (bar one it seems) politely queued up to clamber one-by-one over the blockade. So, having trained for months and months and properly paced themselves to get through the 3.30 cut off, they found themselves timed out through no fault of their own. If I had been in their shoes, I would have been bitterly disappointed to find myself in that situation. That is why they deserve our sympathy rather than being patronised about their level of fitness.

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I too like the gate idea. And it can be left unpadlocked all year giving access to the fells for everyone. Like others I suspect it will be only the fell runners who head that way. And the odd sadomasochist...

Does anyone know who the film crew were and why they were filming? Aside from them, there seemed to be more people with cameras than ever.

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Originally Posted by eardstapa

Does anyone know who the film crew were and why they were filming? Aside from them, there seemed to be more people with cameras than ever.

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I was gutted not to be running this year after 26 consecutive completions (and twenty 3 Peaks cyclo-cross races)

There was a film crew on the route this year, making a documentary for a programme called "Helicopter Heroes". One of their pilots was running in the race.

I got chatting to one of the camera men on my way back down Pen y Ghent. Here are a couple of my pics.
I will put them on-line when i've a minute.

As entries open on Saturday I'll kick off this year's discussion. Which shoes should I wear and how fast should I set off up Pen-y-ghent?!! ;)

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Originally Posted by wjb

Which shoes should I wear and how fast should I set off up Pen-y-ghent?!! ;)

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Flat-soled road-running shoes, and you go off up Pen-y-Ghent like you're being chased by a cheetah - after all, you don't want to have to wait behind the crowds at every gate and stile.

Simples!

Is pallet-gate going to be an issue this year?

you mean pallet-gate-gate?

I was using -gate as a suffix to pallet to describe the scandal of the pallet blocking the way up Whernside last year.

I think I should have just written it as 'palletgate' !!

I notice it's back to clashing with The Fellsman again, but most of us should be past Whernside before the leaders come through, provided we set off on time at 08:30.

That pallet last year was a scandal. We even had to queue at the back of the field around cut-off time!

I added the extra gate as the pallet was a gate, and it turned into a massive -gate!

I'll be in for this year's PPP. Gunning for an 'Elite' time

Sub 4 hours for me. Been '1st class' before but dropped out last year.

£27, ouch! There's a reason I only do it in odd years!

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Originally Posted by anthonykay

Flat-soled road-running shoes, and you go off up Pen-y-Ghent like you're being chased by a cheetah - after all, you don't want to have to wait behind the crowds at every gate and stile.

Simples!

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Surely you just jump the gates.........:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ba-ba

£27, ouch! There's a reason I only do it in odd years!

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Out of interest I've just looked at the entry increase between 1997 and 2017 for a random set of races and they range between 2.2 X (Wadsworth Trog from £4.50 to £10 ) to 3 X (Edale Skyline from £4 to £12). The races were:
Wadsworth Trog - Black Combe - Long Mynd - Langdale - Edale Skyline - Tour of Pendle - Borrowdale

The increase for the 3 Peaks is 5.4 X (£5 in 1997 to £27 in 2017). However the hire costs for the tenting etc are eyewatering and for the most prestigious and best organised event in the Calendar £27 seems very reasonable.

Didn't the Three Peaks entry fee used to be under a tenner then when it was chosen as an international event it went to £20 but then didn't revert to it's previous value?

Although £27 is a bit high for a fell race, when you consider the level of organisation required for a race that typically fields 3x the number of most equivalent races I think that it is still good value compared to road races. Whatever people may say about the terrain and its legitimacy as a 'Fell' race, it is IMO the 'Blue Riband' event in the Fell running calendar.

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Originally Posted by Bob

Didn't the Three Peaks entry fee used to be under a tenner then when it was chosen as an international event it went to £20 but then didn't revert to it's previous value?

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£
25 - 2016
25 - 2015
25 - 2014
25 - 2013

20 - 2012

18 - 2011

16 - 2010
16 - 2009

20 - 2008 World Long Distance MR Challenge

8 - 2007
8 - 2006
8 - 2005
8 - 2004
8 - 2003

Thanks Graham. I wasn't sure if it had stuck at £20 or not post the World's. I can't remember the last year (of two) that I ran it, probably 2007, it was never my favourite race.

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Originally Posted by Bob

Thanks Graham. I wasn't sure if it had stuck at £20 or not post the World's. I can't remember the last year (of two) that I ran it, probably 2007, it was never my favourite race.

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When it started taking me over 4 hours (in my 50s) the fun went and I stopped; but as a Bank which instead of paying its customers interest provides them with a decent trail race, it has its merits.http://forum.fellrunner.org.uk/image...es/biggrin.png

As a long race its got everything in it that I enjoy about running, a bit of road, some easy underfoot trails, a river crossing, a boggy section, a bit of X Country, some long steady climbs, some short technical descents, a bit of all sorts really, and the post race presentation in the marquee has a great atmosphere.

One of my favourite races of the year. It nearly kills me every time but something keeps drawing me back.

This year will be my 10th Three Peaks in a row the first being in 2008 at 51 yrs old. its a fantastic] race
Its my 60th year this year and the race will be even harder as running the London Marathon 6 days prior as one of my 60th Challenges. Also doing the Lakeland 100 again in July.
Using my 60th year to raise money for the Brain Tumour Charity
http://m.virginmoneygiving.com/mt/uk...n_jtt_redirect

10 in a row is a great achievement! I see you're in Bentham Geronimo. Are you a member of Bentham Beagles by any chance? I've just moved into the village/town so wondering about transfering my second claim aliegences!

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Originally Posted by that_fjell_guy

10 in a row is a great achievement! I see you're in Bentham Geronimo. Are you a member of Bentham Beagles by any chance? I've just moved into the village/town so wondering about transfering my second claim aliegences!

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Hi yes i am in Bentham. The Beagles meet at the clubhouse on Wenning Avenue every tuesday and thursday night at 7pm and you are more than welcome. let me know if you are coming down and i will make sure i am there. i live right by the station

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Originally Posted by geronimo

Hi yes i am in Bentham. The Beagles meet at the clubhouse on Wenning Avenue every tuesday and thursday night at 7pm and you are more than welcome. let me know if you are coming down and i will make sure i am there. i live right by the station

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Cheers.
I'm hoping to pop down a.s.a.p. but have been saying that since New Year...hopefully this Tuesday(...if I don't go swimming!?) or Thursday. I'll msg you here if I remember!

Just a reminder entries are still open until 9am Wednesday 12th April - please don't leave it until the last minute to enter

If you're not racing and can spare a few hours to help out on any of these day Friday 28th, Saturday 29th or Sunday 30th April please email me at [email protected]

Has anyone been on the course these last couple of days and if so what it was like underfoot. I reccied it 2 weeks ago and it was bone dry, just wondering if the heavy showers over these last couple of days have had much of an impact on the ground.

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Originally Posted by Fozzy42

Has anyone been on the course these last couple of days and if so what it was like underfoot. I reccied it 2 weeks ago and it was bone dry, just wondering if the heavy showers over these last couple of days have had much of an impact on the ground.

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I'd reckon the only wet bit now may be the bottom of Whernside but I've not been over there recently. I went up Ingleborough via the normally wet route up from Cold Cotes (...not on Three Peaks route!) and that was driest I've seen it. Mind that was just before the recent wet/snowy spell and I'd guess if it rains the Friday night it could well change a bit?