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[QUOTE=Stagger;661926]Well, what ever our government had been advised to carry out isn't particular clever as we are now second on the death list behind the USA.
I wonder if every other country is counting their cause of death in the same way.
At least our hospitals have not been overrun, we have not had coffins piled up in in refrigerated lorries and we have not had mass graves.
Of course the press do not wish to report the positives, if that's what they can be called.
I have no vested interest in whether the schools open anymore.
However Blackburn with Darwen have today cancelled the planned opening of schools tomorrow.
A Public Health England estimate of R now being 1.01 is the cause.
Today in Blackburn with Darwen, we have 0 new cases. Across East Lancs we have 3.
Appalling and misleading presentation of stats.
Italy’s own statistics unit says they expect the real death toll is at least half as big again.
Countries are clearly different.
Portugal did the same as us. Sweden did less. Both have faired better.
So populations are different.
And as for what we did it was guided by alarmist doctors and medical academics whose most consistent quality is wide disagreement with each other. Ferguson made it impossible by telling Boris unless he locked down we would have 250000 dead, and Sweden’s lax approach would cost them 50000 lives. His predictions have been consistent only in that they were consistently wrong.
With only Belgium close 380 England is by far the highest population density in the EU with 400
London is bigger than Berlin and Paris put together. That I suspect is what made the difference.
[QUOTE=Llani Boy;661927]Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagger
Actually, Sweden has done very badly, compared to their low population density (and you have been consistently telling us that high numbers of Covid deaths correlate to high population density). When Sweden decided on a policy of very light restrictions, I was hoping that this would work well; but the death rate statistics show that it hasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oracle
Portugal is an interesting case; why the huge difference between death rates in Spain and Portugal, neighbouring countries with similar population densities (Portugal slightly higher than Spain)?
And can you please stop spouting this rubbish about England having the highest population density in Europe. Netherlands is significantly higher. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_a...pean_countriesQuote:
Originally Posted by Oracle
Sweden has done better than some with full lockdown. There are some in Norway now suggesting they should have followed Sweden, but they got spooked.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonykay
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...e-like-sweden/
They have kept the numbers down in Norway, but they have no immunity and they have done immeasurable damage to many other areas of society and their economy.
I'm not sure there is a right and wrong, I think there is just a lucky and unlucky.
As I've said before, I do agree with the population density point and you mention the Netherlands and they are one of the worst hit so you prove your point, but there is more to it. You have to get the infection in there first.
There is a motorway network at 35,000 ft. You can almost trace the travel of the virus along it.
Why is Spain higher than Portugal? Madrid. It is an inter continental airhub connecting South America - Europe - Asia.
Lisbon is a terminus.
Spain also has Barcelona - two the top 10 busiest in Europe.
All across Europe we have the same thing. Heathrow, Paris CdG, Milan, Schipol, Milan. Whilst Brussels is an exception, it is no doubt a Euro hub.
The one that got away - Frankfurt. But fewer actually stop off for a break there - it's not a tourist city.
Typically wherever you are in Europe, you travel through one of these hubs on your away to/from the Far East.
Spain is now blatantly fiddling its Covid 19 death figures - in time to welcome back foreign tourists perhaps?
Various newspapers have been relaying the news that Spain had been reporting single figure or even zero deaths some days. This result has been achieved by the sleight of hand of changing their methodology to only include deaths that had actually happened and were registered the previous day. So they don't include any deaths that have delayed registration, which is most of them. Clever eh?
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/sta...493184/photo/1
On 25th May they also reduced their cumulative death total by nearly 2,000.
From the start of all this back in China every national government decision and utterance and act has been driven by three things politics, politics and politics (and informed by ignorance). Why would one expect any government to act in any other way? Politics is what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muddy Retriever
"The science" has never driven what has happened in the UK. It may have informed it but it has never been the deciding factor. Not least, as Oracle, keeps telling us because for every medical opinion saying "black" one could find another saying "white".
I have read that the fear of a "second wave" is based on the post- WW1 Spanish epidemic, about which there is very little data (well it was 100 years ago!) and it was a different virus anyway.
Go figure!
It is all and can only be conjecture at the moment (not enough is known about the virus) just maybe if anybody is around in thirty years time then just maybe the truth and real facts may be revealed under the so called THIRTY YEAR rule.
In the meantime relax and get on with life.:rolleyes:
That an excellent assessment WP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witton Park
Fills me with confidence that neither Leeds/Bradford or Dalaman are hubs or even major airports.
Thanks
True about Netherlands it seems, I missed that: So England second highest, but Netherlands, England , belgium are a lot higher than other states, other than micro states.
But quote ALL I said not part about what seems to matter: London is still bigger than Paris and Berlin together, and ten times bigger than Amsterdam. So social distance is still England’s problem, much more than Netherlands.
I don’t claim to know the critical factors :social distance is clearly one. I cite other factors because some seem just to want to blame government, Boris or both.I think that populations seem to react differently, so I am not convinced the figures are comparable. Some succeed despite government not because of it.
FYI - South Korea is also dense.
There is also some correspondence between asthma suffering populations. Brazil figures highly, lower in high UV countries. Etc.
I can vouch for the fact Portugal acted no differently to the U.K., indeed locked down cafes later. ( I saw both during early lockdown so I can compare them. So it is not Portugal’s good management that mattered to low death toll.
Spain prevented exercise which Portugal didn’t.
Hard to see rhyme or reason. Total conjecture: Could it be the greater use of aircon in such as Madrid spreading it? Much of the Portugal population is close to the sea.
They don’t spend every waking hour in Portugal blaming government like our idiot press.
Much prefer their reporting.
Lisbon is still having problems.
Sweden has not trashed their economy. That does matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonykay